[Alffe]

The suicide of a parent shatters a child's belief that he or she is lovable and worthy of being loved...When death happens suddenly or violently or after a long illness, a child must contend with the uncertainty of the world and with a parent's inability to prevent disaster. Yet that child knows that his or her parent did not want to die. Given a choice, he or she would prefer...to be there forever.

When a parent commits suicide, a child must contend with the fact that the parent died willingly, that he or she sought death and knowingly...left the child behind. The refrain of "if my mother or father loved me, how could they have left me?" haunts the lives of the survivors of suicide. Children may come to doubt their own worthiness and inherent goodness. Perhaps it was beause they were not good enough that the parent chose to leave them.

The Loss That is Forever: The Lifelong Impact of the Early Death of a Mother or Father Author Maxine Harris

[reyn]

Alffe, my mother spoke of her mother only twice after her mother died by suicide. My mother never recovered from the death by suicide of her mother. At times, I felt that my mother thought she was to blame for her mother's death, and my mother heaped the guilt onto me when I tried to die by suicide.

If we had had a group of people like the members here on SOS, our lives mights have been quite different. I'll never forget the time that I tried to explain my depression to my mother -- she told me to go ahead and kill myself and to tell her mother "hello" in hell.

Did that make sense? Those left behind after death by suicide continue to suffer. Unfortunately, I never had the maturity to help my own mother deal with her grief over her mother. And the legacy continues . . .

Thank you for your willingness to embrace those of us who are survivors of not just a loved-one's death but of our own screwed-up efforts. You helped me to be able to love my mother in a way that I'd never considered possible.

from my *heart,
reyn

[Alffe]

dearheart...your post made perfect sense...but your inability to help your mother had nothing to do with maturity. You could not know, could not identify with her loss. Her response to you was unjustified....but... as a survivor, I can feel her pain.

Time....lots of time..really is our friend.

[reyn]

You are the next best thing to a loving, caring, understanding biological mother. I'm blessed to have met you.

[reyn]

And who would of thunk that a "Farmville" or a "Cafe World" could keep someone from going over the edge?!

[Alffe]

ROFL..... Dang, I hate those flies!!!

[Alffe]

I'm reading Voices of Strength Sons and Daughters of Suicide Speak Out
by Judy Zionts Fox, and Mia Roldan and I am taken by how many don't speak out...don't talk about it.

Michaels son was only 8 years old when his dad killed himself. He refuses to talk about it. I can only assume he feels that ultimate rejection.

[Addy]

Gosh, this thread makes me nod with understanding AND laugh at the same time... which really is a healthy thing, isn't it?

My thoughts are going all over the place....

I'm going to try and make some sense of what this thread has stirred up.

Reyn... my Dad was an alcoholic. I'm the oldest of 3 - Oh God, how I wanted to save my Dad... How I wanted to help him quit drinking ... when I was 10 my Mom took us away from my Dad (a very brave woman in the 60's... but I didn't know that... she never told us what we were doing)... 500 miles away... no one ever told us that we were leaving my Dad... we just moved...

I wrote to my Dad.... Dear Daddy letters... for 20 years... when he died, I found them... and still have them...every single one

I learned a lot about me... and am still learning.

Reyn, reading that you think you should have/could have/ would have/ helped your Mom ... reminds me so much of ME with my alcoholic Dad....

and with that realization comes the fact that JUST IN WRITING and READING OUR WORDS in this forum is helping us...

I'm very very lucky .... and a huge part of this is helping me heal... its very empowering....!

Reyn... you're very, very lucky too. I have admired you for years. I truly have - and I really had no idea who you were... but I knew that if you were sticking around and Alffe and so many others loved you... then you were a fighter!

Keep fighting for yourself dear lady!

We're all just human.

Its not easy being a human.

dear Affeee... it humbles me to realize your deep down sorrows


Addy

[reyn]

Addy, a post like yours brings me to my knees. Often, I write too much and don't write anything that is easy to read and then later try to get to my post so that I can delete the really personal stuff.

My life has been a strange journey. If I had never found online forums, I would be either dead or in a psychiatric hospital. There are times that I will be manic, with the numerous posts and e-mails to people, or depressed and keeping to my self when I write little and rarely speak to another human being.

It wasn't until I was in my 30's that I understood the love that my father had for me. My mother is another subject (anybody want to read or listen to years of problems, angst, guilt?), and my 3 siblings another complicated, complex matter. At least I can feel good about caring for my father for almost two years until he died -- but then I felt sick because I was not with him when he actually died.

Addy, I can't image the pain that you must have felt when you discovered all of your letters to your father. I found several letters to my dad that he had saved -- one was a letter that I had written on my computer, with some graphics, that was from "Cait" my min. schnauzer. We (Cait and I) had spent a week-end with my parents, and Cait had acted up and demanded attention and gotten on my dad's nerves. He really had a love for animals, and I was upset that my Cait had bothered my dad. (We didn't know that he had a large brain tumor, on his frontal lobe.) He saved that letter from Cait/me, and I think that he really appreciated that I loved him enough to write him a letter from my dog

Addy, I'm not deserving of anyone here. There have been just a few people who have stayed my friend through the past 10 years, and they have continued writing to me without any acknowledgment for several years. I am ashamed of myself because I didn't acknowledge the cards and notes through the years. I was very selfish and boarded myself up in this house.

I moved back here in 1998 to take care of my dad, and I feel that I failed my mother. If I could only redo those years! I didn't deal well with the breast cancer and 8 surgeries that followed. I moved my mother into a personal care facility and then into a nursing home. There is no going back. She and I had a "love/hate" relationship, and that has carried forward to my sister's and my relationship. I no longer even speak to either of my brothers and am just in the most basic communication with my sister.

I've lived a pretty screwed up life. I've been married and divorced more times that I'd like to admit. My only living child (an identical twin) is in poor health and living in an institutional setting -- how I HATE to say or write that word -- institution. It is what it is. I failed him, and I failed my mother.

And now? I'm in a situation that us unhealthy for me. But I stay, and I tell myself that I should be thankful for what I have. I sold my farm, but I have a house in town, and I was able to buy a small house with the intention to renovate and move into or sell. All I ever wanted was to live in a small house out in the country. It's not going to happen, and I've decided to give it up, stay where I am, and do the best that I can with what I have here. I have my two Westies -- I love them so much! They stay with, from dusk to dawn, even sleep under the covers on my bed ;-)

Addy, you wrote,

"and with that realization comes the fact that JUST IN WRITING and READING OUR WORDS in this forum is helping us..."

and that is the absolute Truth! You help me every single time that you speak to me on this forum, and you help me when you cause me to think about where I've been and why and where I am trying to go.

There are times when I speak too freely of what is going on in my head and my life. There are times when I am too ashamed to come here and try to share or try to help others. I tried to tell new friends here that I do care but I can't be counted on. Well, what kind of friend is that?!

So, here I am, very grateful for my friends and family here,
from my *heart,
reyn

[Addy]

I want to acknowledge that you are someone, Reyn... a real live person

Through every up and down you have persevered! I think you are a little like me... you make the best of the moment you are in... or at least you try. And that all balances on whether or not we're manic or wallowing in depression or somewhere in between.

I don't think you write too much. I learn so much more when you write.

Thank you for your kind words to me.

I didn't have pain when I found my letters to my Dad. They were like a journal of my life. I may write a book one day. I think about it all the time. I think I might start by scanning them and trying to put them into some type of order.

Please don't say you're not deserving... because that simply isn't true. Think about what I said - you have always influenced me... over these past 10 years... how amazing is that? I guess its because I have watched Alffe and Ptr.

I think its good for us to stir up thoughts in each other... I know we always try to be gentle... and when we don't , well, we feel just awful... but for the most part, we are a caring bunch, eh?!!

I'm going to be away for about 5 days after tomorrow so excuse my absence (altho I may have some computer time and pop on). I'm taking another flying leap into an unknown but exciting void... so my energies are elsewhere...

Addy (that singing face is a hint as to where I'm going and what I'll be doing!)