[carmell]

Hi All,

I was wondering if any of you sufferers have looked at or considered prolotherapy? I recently read an article about a hockey player named Simon Gagne who had 4 concussions and dealt with Post-Concussion symptoms for 7 months before seeking out Dr. Greenberg in NJ.

He is now back to playing hockey and feels just like his pre-concussive self. I will give the link to the article to check it out. I do believe in full recovery. I also know that there are some out there who do not recover so well, but I feel there is something hindering them from full recovery. A lot of the time that is pain, which can alter your sleep and ability to concentrate

Prolotherapy has been shown to treat migraines and headaches. Dr. Greenberg suffered from headaches for 3 years after an automobile accident. He used prolotherapy and is now headache free. He can run, bike, and work all day without any headache. Here is the link:

I just realized I cannot post the link because I am too new....you will have to google "Simon Gagne and Prolotherapy"

Carmell

[wtrpk]

I did prolotherapy with Dr. Greenberg. I thought he was fantastic...did 3 rounds (2 weeks apart). Cherry HIll is 2 hrs from me and I can't drive...so my husband had to take off work to take me. He helped a friends son who was suffering for 9 months at the time.

For me...it was more of a nerve block...helped my neck (for about another month after) but didn't help my symptoms of being overstimulated. In a way, since my headaches weren't so bad, I did more and prob overstimulated myself more.

I wouldn't cross it off my list again...I'm trying other things like prism lenses and visual therapy since I believe there is such a visual component. (10 mins i last on computer and 20 mins watching tv)...barely drive without a migraine.

what are your symptoms??

[carmell]

I no longer have any cognitive symptoms from my concussion, but I do have a bit of a sore neck. I was looking into prolotherapy as an alternative to muscle relaxers or steroid injections. I may just wait it out, but thought others might benefit from it! For 6 months though I did have headaches, migraines, vertigo, nausea, and insomnia.

[Mark in Idaho]

Prolotherapy may be helpful for a joint issue since it is focused on antagonizing or irritating an area thus causing the body to put effort into healing that area.

The same concept is often at work with arthroscopic knee surgery. I had knee surgery twice with both times nothing found to repair so nothing was done. After both times, my knees were much better. The explanation is simple. The surgery antagonized the body in that location causing a increase in healing effort. This combined with the two weeks rest of the knee allows the body to accomplish worthwhile healing.

Alternating cold and heat on a joint can cause the same kind of healing action. The cold decreases swelling which can slow blood flow then the heat increases circulation to improve healing.

I can not see any way that prolotherapy would help with neurological concussion symptoms. The headaches that result from muscle tension or joint injuries may be helped but not the cognitive or memory problems.

carmell, No matter how much you believe in full recovery from concussion, it is not so. You may achieve an appearance of a full functional recovery but your brain will never be the same. The next concussion will be more damaging that the previous.

Brain stress will cause a return of concussion symptoms to every concussion sufferer. The magnitude of the return of symptoms will be dependent on the original injury and the level of brain stress. What this means is every concussion sufferer needs to be aware of their brain's need to be protected from another impact and/or from the stresses that can cause a return of symptoms.

I am not saying prolotherapy will not work, just that its benefit is in increasing healing to joints and muscle/tendon like injuries.

[carmell]

Originally Posted by Mark in Idaho

Prolotherapy may be helpful for a joint issue since it is focused on antagonizing or irritating an area thus causing the body to put effort into healing that area.

The same concept is often at work with arthroscopic knee surgery. I had knee surgery twice with both times nothing found to repair so nothing was done. After both times, my knees were much better. The explanation is simple. The surgery antagonized the body in that location causing a increase in healing effort. This combined with the two weeks rest of the knee allows the body to accomplish worthwhile healing.

Alternating cold and heat on a joint can cause the same kind of healing action. The cold decreases swelling which can slow blood flow then the heat increases circulation to improve healing.

I can not see any way that prolotherapy would help with neurological concussion symptoms. The headaches that result from muscle tension or joint injuries may be helped but not the cognitive or memory problems.

carmell, No matter how much you believe in full recovery from concussion, it is not so. You may achieve an appearance of a full functional recovery but your brain will never be the same. The next concussion will be more damaging that the previous.

Brain stress will cause a return of concussion symptoms to every concussion sufferer. The magnitude of the return of symptoms will be dependent on the original injury and the level of brain stress. What this means is every concussion sufferer needs to be aware of their brain's need to be protected from another impact and/or from the stresses that can cause a return of symptoms.

I am not saying prolotherapy will not work, just that its benefit is in increasing healing to joints and muscle/tendon like injuries.

I beg to differ on this. I received a concussion playing soccer when I was 17 and one earlier when I was 7. I had no residual symptoms after these concussions. I was a normal, happy, functional High School girl. I even graduated top of my class as Valedictorian. Do I believe my brain tissue is the same? No. It's like when you cut your finger and it heals as a scar. It is not as good as the original tissue, but is still functional. The more concussions you get, the harder it is to recover. But full recovery does exist, and I feel I am living proof.

[wtrpk]

carmell --- I will tell you the prolotherapy is expensive. But it might work for you. Go have a consultation with Dr. Greenberg. Where do you live? I'm northern NJ so 2 hrs away. He is a great dr.

[carmell]

I am in Canada, but there are a few Doctors around where I life that practice prolotherapy. I wonder, is it worth the cost? Or am I better of with a regular nerve block?

[Mark in Idaho]

carmell,

As I said, <You may achieve an "appearance" of a full functional recovery but your brain will never be the same.> The research was done many years ago (1970's). The concussed brain can be identified with a variety of tests. The PASAT is the first to do such. It is the Paced Auditory Serial Addition Test. The previously concussed brain will show up in the results. The stressed concussed brain will be even more evident.

A qEEG in good hands can also indicate the organic damage.

By stressed, it can be emotional stress, physical stress (fatigue, sleepiness, fever) and bio-chemical stress such as high altitude, lack of food energy, and other chemical (alcohol etc.) stressors.

It is fabulous that you feel 100%.

The cognitive and memory symptoms can be quite serious ( especially in the short term) without causing a catastrophic problem with academic performance. This causes some serious confusion in the neuro-psych industry. NP's have a hard time understanding how someone with serious memory and cognitive dysfunctions can have a high IQ.

Both of my neuro-psych reports try to discount any concussion because I still test with a very high IQ ( top 2%). They try to blame the memory and cognitive dysfunctions on depression. The truth is that the divergent scores are directly indicative of an organic cause rather than emotional cause.

You may not have suffered the memory and cognitive symptoms at a level that effected your academic performance. Also, the 10 years between your concussions and the early age of your first concussion lessens the residual effects of it. The brain can do a lot more 'rewiring' at 7 than it can at 17.

btw, I would have easily been in the running for valedictorian honors if my concussion year was left out of my GPA. I recovered to the same high grades for my junior and senior year (all A's freshman, junior and senior years taking Honors courses ). Now, honors courses are called AP courses and qualify for extra GPA points. I did not get any extra points for taking sophomore courses as a freshman, junior courses as a sophomore, etc. By my senior year, I has run out of courses to take but my school did not allow early graduation.

I have a friend who was comatose for 3 months and required two years to learn to walk and talk. He still struggles with many cognitive and memory issues but plays Backgammon at a Master level. He has some academic skills that are outstanding and others that are seriously limited.

A common term for those with PCS is the "invisible wounded" because our struggles are not obvious to the untrained eye. Many of use have extraordinary coping skills that allow us to appear fully functioning.

Most people can not understand what struggles I have but my wife sees them loud and clear. She knows my pre-morbid functions. She still sees me as extremely gifted intellectually but knows I have serious limitations. Many with mTBI think they have no residual symptoms but those around them often see those symptoms on a regular basis.

There are many spouses in our Brain Injury Support Group whose spouses do not think they have any symptoms. Their spouses come for the support and to learn how to deal with and live with the mTBI/PCS person who refuses to acknowledge their symptoms.

Again, I am glad you feel 100%. I often felt 100% too but my family still noticed a difference.

[carmell]

Mark,

I hear you. When I initially had symptoms my doctor blamed it on anxiety/depression, which I had never had previously in my life. I find family doctors' knowledge on concussions to be appallingly little. Bugs me.

I would say if anything was affected by my concussions...it would have to be my social skills. I have sometimes dealt with a "fear of crowds". I wonder if this has any relation to the concussions I have sustained. Who knows. Could be, or could be just genetic wiring.

[Mark in Idaho]

It is not uncommon for concussion sufferers to be considered schizoid, which is a personality type (disorder by DSM-IV) where the subject tends to shy from crowds and be more of a loner.

It is also common for personality changes to manifest after a concussion. It all depends on the parts of the brain most effected.

OCD (Obsessive Compulsive Disorder) and other anxiety/panic disorders ( fear of crowds, a subset of agoraphobia) are also common to PCS subjects.

Concussion and other brain injuries tend to magnify personality characteristics. If one is shy, they will likely become very shy after TBI. Angry problems will be magnified. Etc. Talkers tend to become insufferable talkers as they often lose they skills at reading others' reactions.

My mother says that after my concussion at 10 years old, I was not her sweet little boy anymore.