[Electra]

I just had a profound moment for me and my quest for answers. Truly boggles my mind, but I'll get wrapped around it in a day or so. I posted on BT about a month ago my thougths on CD. [I post now there, but it is SO SLOW, something is wrong.]
http://brain.hastypastry.net/forums/...ad.php?t=13667
They (the medicial community) don't really have answers and for me the disease just does not "fit" logic. Something is missing. Why is the body turning on itself in presences of gluten protien?
My FIL just sent me this link to GlycoScience.org He's a message therapist who has been in the alternative medicine side of things since long before I knew him. His library collection is fabulous living on the grid kind of stuff. Anyway...
If you have researched CD, the other related diseases and just continually seek answers, read this and just think for a moment what it implies, it isn't an answer, it's just a theory that emerges to me.

Metabolic disorders can alter glycosylation and cause adverse effects. For example, galactosemia (build up of galactose) results from deficiencies in the enzymes that convert galactose into usable metabolic forms. Serious medical consequences occur because of an inability to synthesize essential galactose-containing glycoconjugates.99 108 Decreased activity of the enzyme, galactosyltransferase, which glycosylates (galactose) immunoglobulin G, may be important in the etiology of rheumatoid arthritis. There is a lower content of galactose in glycoconjugates in both serum and synovial fluid in arthritic patients.109 110 111 Abnormal fucosylation of acute phase serum proteins has also been observed in patients with rheumatoid arthritis.19 80 Deficiency in fucosidase will lead to a disease termed fucosidosis due to accumulation of excess fucose glycoconjugates.100 101 Activities of liver fucosyltransferase and serum fucosidase are also increased in diabetic rats.80 Serum fucosidase activity is decreased in cystic fibrosis patients.19 In a rare disease termed leukocyte adhesion deficiency II, there is severely reduced fucosylation of glycoconjugates that results in a markedly compromised immune system.112 Patients with carbohydrate-deficient glycoprotein syndrome type I (CDGS) underglycosylate many serum proteins by failing to add entire N-linked oligosaccharide chains. The metabolic defect in most cases is a loss of phosphomannomutase activity. The disease can be corrected simply by supplementation with mannose.7 N-acetylglucosamine appears to be important in glycosylation reactions in the developing intestine of animals, since its incorporation into rat epithelial cell surface glycoproteins was reduced in newborns reared by mothers given low-protein diets

Does it jump out at you as it did to me? What jumped out is more questions than answers, but a theory in my head that some key sugar and sugar synethsis is missing or gone hay wire. And it MIGHT BE a key to my answers regarding Celiac Disease. Of course, I need to do more reading, more understanding, and more research b/c frankly this reads like a bio-chem text and that was just too many years ago for me to have total understanding on a first pass. I passionately loved science classes in high school and college, but choose to go a different path b/c I didn't want to spend years in research to have the PhD guy get all the credit for his grunts research. I became an accountant instead.

Anyone want to truly cure Celiac Disease with me? Alternative minded people will probably get to it before a medical doctor, they got to the diet first (CSD, then GF) that fixed the immediate problems. Now it's time for those alternative minded to come up with a theory of the reason why and then work toward a real cure.

[KimS]

The thing is though, that celiac disease, diabetes, etc. occurs where?.... In geographical areas of excess.

Is it nature's way of sending us a message that we're overdoing it? Perhaps.

It boggles my mind also, but in a different way... I look at the rates of constipation... even in vegetarians and all I can think is... the human body was not meant to consume THAT much grain!

If we were hunting and gathering, grain would be a treat... not a staple. Meat would have times of abundance and times of abstinence. What would be eaten mostly? The easiest stuff to get, grasses, fruits, vegetables, leaves, etc. Rice is both easier to gather and to consume than wheat.

I think, all the time, about how we would be eating if we didn't have all this automation and excess.

[NancyM]

I agree Kim. My neice's boyfriend is a Chippiwa and I have talked to him about his people's native/traditional diet. They live in N. Minnesota so you can imagine how cold it gets up there. They did not practice agriculture but lived off of fish and game primarily. The only grain they had was wild rice and that would have been only in some seasons. Other than that, they ate berries in season. Meat/fish isn't dependent on seasons, it would have been available year round.

I have a feeling that mankind's traditional diet was heavily altered a couple thousand years ago and again in the last 50 years, with food industrialization. We're now eating far more starches and sugars than humans have ever eaten.

[Electra]

Yes, all is true, but it does not answer the question -- What causes our bodies to react to violently to wheat and oats? The core issue is not solely that we are not meant to eat soooo much grains or process foods, the answer is found in that explaination alone. To me, something is wrong at the cellular level, the Zonulin studies are about the cellular level but countering a reaction, not the cause (b/c science does not know the cause).
I say this b/c my ds2 never ate anything but breastmilk and yet was Celiac at birth. My ds3 is apparently the same way. My grain intake is seriously lower than most given that prior to ds2's dx I was on a whole foods & lower carb diet which was very low in processed foods (not much at all in the way of breads, crackers and processed foods) and since ds2's dx, the household is 98% Gluten Free will all dinners being GF.

Seeing Celiac Disease manifest in infants being breastfed is striking and just screams at me that there is more going on. I'll find it, eventually, it might be 10 years from now or more.

I, personally, am not meant to be Dairy Free and Gluten Free. My body is breaking down. My nails are falling apart and there is a ridge line inbetween healthy and brittle, it is from the time I went GF. My hair is falling out. I can't pinpoint 1 food item I gave up when I went GF that would cause all this to happen. The two items I know I gave up are granola and yogurt. My supplements are the same. I'm falling apart and my little guy is thriving (ironic to say the least). I want to nurse my little guy, but right now I'm holding out till we see Dr. Fasano.

But that is all separate to the reading I did this morning which may or may not lead somewhere great.

[KimS]

What are you eating? Maybe we can help.

[northernlights]

Electra, I live in Scandinavia and here we have real gf oats in collaboration with the gf societies and researchers.
My daughtere and I are very sensitive to gluten,and even traces of the gf wheat starch that many celiacs here eat. About 20 or 25% do not tolerate it.
But we found out we do tolerate the gf oats.
The researchers here found out that only a few pwoplw so not tolerate the oats either.
Daughter was very unhappy with the gf bread, store.bought or home-made (we do not toerate milk either) so she was at a baking course withour milk or wheat starch, and she really liked the gf bread with oats. Finally it felt nice in her stomach, felt like she ate something that lasted.
Maybe you can tolerate home-made gf bread with added gf oats too?

We have some small fields here where we grow soem oats and barley. There is no wheat nearby. I keep telleing partner that we should weed the oat field and then it is possible to clean the threshing machine and daughter can have a sack of gf oats. But what would we do with a sack of threshed gf oats?

nora

[Swuzly]

Why is the body turning on itself in presences of gluten protein? What causes our bodies to react to violently to wheat and oats?


The human body is not capable of digesting the gluten protein. It is stored and builds up in our bodies. When we eat it in excess, as in a western diet, we have a severe reaction to it.

Did you eat grains when you were pregnant with your son? Deos he have the HLA DQ2 and 8 genes? Maybe his fight against it began in utero. Though your son did not have it in excess as you did not, maybe what he had was more than he could tolerate.

Also, the GE of grains in the US and other developed countries have been altered such that a grain is significantly higher in sugar.

Currently, I am studying the neurological effects of tannins in grains. The question I am trying to answer is this: do persons who are neurologically affected have as strong or stronger reaction to the tannins in gluten containing grains or to the protein itself? There's not much out there, that I can decipher, but I am working on it.

Leslie