[mucker]

Hi there i am newbie and what i would like to know is what type of work is out there for people with TOS. I am a sailor well i was two years ago i have been off work since july 2005 and have been told i well never sail agin. I have been told that even after surgery i well have to be on some type of pain meds for the rest of my life because it has been so long of a wait and it has gotten so bad that my thoracic surgeon is only hoping to take some pain away. Big difference from when i first saw him and i had a 80 to 85% of being pain free. Any ways i am getting off track i am now being sent to a return to work thing and they wont me to tell them what i wont to do for a living now. I fined this funny because we don't know what is going to happen after surergery. I wont to be real about what kind of job i can do so i thought i would ask the people who live with TOS and the pain what type of work that you's do for a living and how you handle the pain and your job.

[Jomar]

possible jobs-

Something where you can self pace your work so as to take stretch breaks
Something with a variety of tasks that you can self monitor your actions


most likely you will have some sort of restrictions after the surgery- possibly-
no overhead work -maybe even reaching / holding things out in front
no lifting of a certain weight/weight limits
no repetitive


But does the Dr say you are able to work at all??
There should be some modifications or restrictions at the very least.

many places will have you do PT/ physio and they should send a report to Dr as to your how you are functioning and if improvement or not.

there are also FCE {functional capacity exams} tests that will show what you can actually do or not do.

[Sea Pines 50]

hi, mucker,

please see my response on the other thread.

i would throw this right back in their face. they have to get your pain under control before anybody can even contemplate your going back to ANY type of gainful employment, for crying in the sink. that is just ridiculous, to my way of thinking anyway!

for goodness sake, woman, you've told them, have you not, that you cannot even sleep at night? that the surgery, or surgeries, performed thus far (and possibly for the WRONG dx) have done absolutely nothing for your very painful sx? and that you're getting steadily worse?

i don't see how prior to a major and extremely risky surgery like a rib resection and/or a scalenectomy (not sure which you are contemplating, if either), anyone IN THEIR RIGHT MIND would be pressuring you to be coming up with "ideas" about a whole new career path right now! that is patently ridiculous and the argument makes no sense on its face.

OK, i realize that i'm ranting here, but this just gets me so steamed...

who is your surgeon? please don't let just anyone do this procedure on you, mucker. you really need someone who has done hundreds, if not thousands, of these surgeries in their career. someone who specializes in TOS. that is ususally (but not always) a vascular surgeon, in my experience.

i'm not trying to cause trouble here, but i am concerned. do you have an attorney?

something doesn't sound right. you should not be being placed under this much stress after just finding out not only that you have something major like TOS, but that you have to have a risky surgery like this one to try and give your body a chance to heal from it. and make no mistake, it's a very hard recovery no matter which TOS surgery you have and despite what any surgeon "promises" you. i'm talking months, if not years, of rehab.

just my opinion but i really think this stinks. i, for one, am not buying what they are trying to sell you and i don't think you should either!!! but then again, i don't know what jurisdiction you're under or much about the facts surrounding your case so perhaps i'm missing something.

just trying to help you; please understand that first and foremost.

alison

damn the man!

[mucker]

HI there Sea Pines 50 first i would like to thank you. I feel the same way about this but know one well listen to what i say. I am on comp i live in nova scotia canada but i am on ontario comp because the company i worked for is located there. It is the comp bored who is doing this to me and if i don't do what they say they well cut my funds off and i can't live with out it. I have been fighting the system since 2004. It has taken a lot just to get them to except TOS as what is wrong with me as well as to except that it was caused from my job. From what i understand in canada any way not to many doctor's know anything about TOS or belive it excised. I have been to 14 doctors since 2004 and it wasn't till Dec 2005 that i was finely diagnosed with bilateral upper arms,thoracic outlet syndrome and carpel tunnel in right and tendonitis in left arm. ha ha god that sounds bad any way i do have a thoracic surgeon who has done hundreds of surgeries for tos . He said that he will go through the arm pitt and remove part of the rib and mussel. I am aware and so is comp that once they do the surgery that it well take two months to recover if i recover end at that time he will decide if he well do my other arm or not. But they think that i should be getting ready for the day i can start work. For some reason they belive in every one should be more worried about getting back too work in stead of dealing with what is wrong with you they call it self worth ha ha ha. I guess if your working you wont feel bad about your self who knows how they think. So any ways i don't have much choice in perticapating in any programs they though my way or it's good bye cash. As far as a lawyer goes i don't have the money and there are not to many lawyers around who deal with comp and the ones that do you have to pay up front or they must feel that you have a very strong case that they can win and they will take a cut of that. I have permanent restrictions at this time and the company i worked for have no type of work for me that would fall in the restrictions as well as the med's i have to take. These are the fowling restrictions no impact activity,heavy lifting,no overhead activity and any type of repetitive or forceful use of either shoulder against resistance,no twisting pulling,pushing,pinching or repetitive gripping. My med's that i am on Hydromorphone contin 6mg in morning and 9mg at night,Hydromorphone 2mg i take two every four hours for break through pain i also take paroxetine 30 mg a day for depression and oxazepam 1 at bed time for sleep oh yes finely i take two table spoons of pms lactulose every second night so i can go to the bath room once or twice a week what a life ha ha. I still have to laugh about it once in awhile or i think i wouldnt be here i am sure you know the feeling.So any ways where does this leave one every thing we do in life has repetitive movement and unless you have tos they don't understand the pain we go through. Don't get me wrong i very much wont to work again i hate not doing anything but what kind of work can one do that wont cause pain and something you well look forward to doing. My dream came to a end now with everything on my plate they won't me to think of a new carer part of me feel's that this should be kind'a of exciting start new but for the most part i feel more like i am drowning and i have my hand out for help but know one is there to take it. This is very hard for me because i have always prided my self on never needing help from any one but i think god has decided that i need to learn about asking for help instead of giving help to every one else. Not very easy opening up to other's and asking for there hand. I am doing it for the first time in my life and it's so nice to know i am not alone any more.

[Sea Pines 50]

ok, i see now. it makes sense and of course you must go along with whatever the comp program indicates, but here's what i would like to suggest to them. you will need retraining. sailing is all you've ever known, and you were top-notch at that gig i'll bet. so they need to send you back to school and they need to pay for it. if i were you, i'd think back to maybe my childhood dreams; what did they look like? what did you want to be when you "grew up"? because this could be that rare opportunity, mucker, and given the right perspective... that's exactly the spin you should put on it. i of course don't know your educational background but i do know of at least one other person in your province who is a comp case and who was able to return to school to start educating herself in a whole other area, with an eye to increasing her marketability due to TOS having severely limited her ability to do the very physical job she was in before. so take heart. you can and will turn this into a positive; i know you will.

and you know what? they are absolutely right when they say that our self esteem is tied up in our work ethic. i believe that. speaking for myself here, i must say that i find myself still grieving over the loss of my career and it's been over 4 years since i haven't been able to work full-time because the TOS finally got so bad. but i managed to work with raging TOS for many, many years, so i don't mean to discourage anyone who chooses to keep working at something they love, from doing so. it's a matter of personal choice to some extent. (mine was a corporate job - i obviously could not have kept up a job like yours!... no freakin' way, mucker! but there have been studies done which show that if you know you have something to return to, you will heal faster. nothing wrong with that whatsoever (and i don't want anyone reading to take this the wrong way... please!).

there are a lot of options for you to explore, no matter what you end up doing, to aid you from an ergonomic standpoint, and perhaps a good deal of it would be reimbursable even, i don't know. voice-activated software, for one thing, is a BIG help to many on here. then let's say you were to go back to university. in the US it's called office for students with disabilities, but whatever the canadian equivalent is, would have to provide you with things like: longer periods of time for exam-taking; lecture notes; lower per-term courseload; right to tape lectures, etc., etc. all as dictated by statute and then some! there is a long-time forum member named dimarie who went back for more than one advanced degree and i'm sure she will share tons of ideas with you. di is an extremely generous soul - use the advanced search function to pull up her threads and you will no doubt hit the motherlode, mucker (she uses voice-activated software, though, so pay no mind to the speak-o's, haha).

OK. is dr. belems your surgeon? because if so, i'm resting a little easier; he IS the go-to guy up there in nowhereland (kidding! i'm kidding! you know we americans have no concept of canada). but please, please tell us you misspoke when you said he was only going to take PART of your first rib, mucker. this makes no sense. he has got to take the entire first rib for it to be a successful TOS surgery (or there's a chance it could grow back), and of course in order to get that rib out he's got to partially resect both the anterior and the middle scalene muscles, because they are anatomically attached to the first thoracic rib. is that what you meant? please clarify that point because i have TOS and i will obsess ENDLESSLY if you don't...

here's the bottom line. i know you're going to be OK. we have several other canucks on this forum and hopefully when they see your thread JAMY, CINDYJ, RACHAEL and/or GIBBRN will contact you tout de suite ma cherie as those 3 in particular i believe know who the good guys are in ontario, if not nova scotia - and whom to stay the F away from, too (docs, PT's, bodyworkers, masseures, the whole 9)! the lawyer thing, i don't know about so much in canada but if you can talk to your fellow countrymen about that too it couldn't hurt. find someone to at least do an initial consult with you, though, if things keep going the way they have been, because from the sound of it you are getting railroaded and that ain't right. best case scenario yes, legal fees/expenses come out of the award or settlement at the end of the case, but even if you HAD to come up with a couple/few hundred dollars to PROTECT YOURSELF at this juncture... wouldn't it be worth it just to sleep at night? (pretty sure you can find a first consult for gratis, though...) it is your life and your future we are talking about. i think rachael ended up having a powow with somebody now that i think about it; maybe she could give you his name and #. god, i'm nosy i'm lovable, though. shelley said so!!

you have lots of courage, and are way stronger than most people and, i daresay than most men (sorry, boyz, don't mean to offend any of you but sailing is tough stuff!). but boy do i know how hard it is to ask for help. that was agonizing for me as well. still is. can anybody lend me $5.00?

but mucker, help is right here. we are right here.
so hang in there; the sky is blue, the sun is shining and the ship's afloat!!!

alison

[DiMarie]

Hi Muker,
This is so typical for comp system to baindaid up with excuse to get back to work. Saves their bucks, and kills our bodies. Do you have a long term disability, or as we have social security disability from the government? I can't recall.

I took a settlement from w/c and then went back to findish my college, but still cannot work full time. During this time I did receive social security.

I do enjoy the nominal hours I work, but it takes its toll and I am not even as severe with neuro pain as most.

I wa Pennsylvania's first female municiple police chief, I struggled against predudice for 13 years before I even was hired in police work, doing security , store and plant prior to that.

I think it is a game, WE KNOW it is a game. Follow the referalls and attend court hearings, sometimes the best thing is sitting in front of the judge or the potential employer and letting the physical problems show.

Right after I was taken off work, I did some geneolgy, scrap booking to fill time. I took three college classes a semester two years later. I excelled with the help of the forum friends.

I wish I could provide a full time job to my family. Right now the disability and the part time work two or three evenings a week are enough. In fact the more I do outside the home, the less I can do inside the home.

BUt the reward emotionally is great. I have a lot of experiance to share andhelp others and it does feel so good to share that again. AI supervise visits between estranged children and their parents. Some parents have legal situations, lost custody, never were active in the childs life, or the parents may have some mental problems they are working through.

One gentleman that ended up being an excellant interaction with his child had never seen the toddler as she was born while he was in prison.
Another client I have is extremly hostile and puts his daughter in the middle of all the adult court stuff, and try to allienate the other parent.

I have to enforce the rules that prevent that, or stop the visit if they do not comply. So I do get to use my law wnforcement past.
We had a client show up with a knife in a pants pocket, another had Vicodin in an unmarked bottle, another had paraphinallia on the front seat of his car in plain view when we went out to get the registration of the vehicle.

So it is not baby sitting, it is still an area of work that gives me self esteem and pride. If I have to hire someone to do the home stuff, then I guess I do. It would be nice if the family pitched in more.

But, in your situation and needs now heal the body and soul, if they send you on an interview, dress as you do any day, but don;t try to look worse. They video tape down here. SO if you look terrilble for the interview but nice other days, that hurts. But with TOS many just want easy one and off clothes, that is what you would wear to work so that is OK.

THey will see the break in work history. If you have restrictions you can list them on applications.
If they are sending you to occupational rehab, they will see your limits,. Always stop when you hurt, even if it was a few minutes of a task they have you do.

You may appear to be trying by having them reevaluate you for a type of job to do...not menial like hostessing..that job, requires pushing tables together, gathering drinks orders, taking care of the phone, heavy use of it. Lifting all the orders, standing long periods and lifting trays of weight. The eprson interviewing my daughter asked can you stand for four hours without a break, and can you carry a tray of more then 20 pounds frequently. Your restritions should be no hand or arm use!!!! That means no monitoring job in securioty agency, no gas attendant in a self serve as what happens if a gas spill or vehicle fire happens, you are physically unable to help a person or property.

IF and when you want to return to work...a self employment of some kind may be better.
Take care of yourself, be verbal about what hurts, if they send you to voc rehab to evaluate, state about not for ex: wearing clothes that are difficult to put on or maintain that you were pull ons, no iron, no buttons, sleep hours are difficult so you need a job that accomdates a flexable schedule.

There are many ways to not be illegal or avoid work, but being honest and taking care of your body., More then we can say about the insurance carriers.

I will re read your post again, I skimmed through as I was angry about the comp and their tricks and hoops they use.
Take care,
Dianne

[gibbrn]

Hi Mucker,

I hope that you have peace with this issue! I am happy to help in any way.

There is an office in WSIB that I think is called the office of the worker adviser and they will help you if you have no other help....maybe a good idea before a lawyer or large expense....and the lawyers who do the no payment until settled is a good way for them to get 60% from you.......just a thought. There is a website From Ontario that will show you lawyers and their specialty...don't remember it right now changed hard drives so....nothing in here yet.....would be happy to talk to you...I have been batting tos since 2002 when I was injured at work I am a nurse and have just moved to Calgary!!!!

please email if you need help if I can do anything or encourage you I'll be happy to help!

take care.....Slainte
Victoria
gibbrn@hotmail.com

ps. I know an amazing doc in Hamilton who does tos surgery for vascualr tos....don't really know a good neuro but be VERY careful with NS doc's and tos surgery!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It is not easy and if you don't see it out there (tos) often and do surgery.......better to go somewhere where they see it more often...like once a year not once every three to five!!!
take care,
Victoria rn

[mucker]

Hi Victoria rn thank you for your reply at this time i don't belive i need a lawyer and that comp thing i think i know what your talking about but they do not help you if you belong to a union. I was also in touch with another place in toronto who did give me lawyers and some other advice about the system and how things work this guy i spoke to has dealt with other sailors. But here lays the problem my union knows nothing and for me to get a lawyer or the other people can't remember what there called but they only ask for 5 or 10 % of the money is the miles between us. So on my own i did get my comp and at this time they are wonting me to start the back to work thing sorry mind is not working right now ha ha. As far as i know they are going to wait till after surgery to make me go to school or start working. The thing is at this time i am 42 and i don't know what i wont to do or what i can do i find this so frustrating even when i was young i did not know what i wonted to be. Until one day when i was about 30 or 32 i decided that i wonted to be a mucker so that i could work in the engine room and all over the ship i would be able to work with my hands end use my head to solve problems i love working on the big engines. I haven't been a sailor all my life i worked in the bush driving a skidder i was a bartender,waiters i also was a crew boss on a golf course we were building in BC. Lets see oh ya i worked in tourist camps when i was really young i also worked as a sales clerk and manager. a nurses aid as well as security guard/child care worker in a young offender home. Well i was off the ship i went back to school and got my papers in geriatric activation so i worked for a while as a recreational coordinator in a home. So i have done a lot of different jobs but the only one i truly loved was being a mucker. So this is why i am having such a hard time with coming up with a new carer god i am getting my self worked up again. OK deep breath oh the doctor i have here has done hundreds of tos surgeries i did check him out on the web as well i kinda did my own interview when i first meet him and the other doctors say he is the best in hes field. But if this ever goes to wissat i well need some help i think not sure because since this started i have done a lot of research about comp and the rules in fact my case worker is not to keen about me because i was knowing just a little to much and i told him there would be a snow ball chance in hell that they or the company would ever beat me or push me around. He gets so mad at me he said that i should get into the business of fighting for the workers like the big companies hire to fight for them. I still giggle after we talk on the phone sorry i am getting caried away and getting off track any ways thanks once again i well keep you on my list of contacts so if i need help with comp i well get in touch i can always use some one else for a new look or ideas at getting it done bye for now.

[hairdresser]

Dr. Buthune
Clinic: QE II Health Sciences Centre, Victoria General Site
1278 Tower Road
Halifax Nova Scotia Canada
Phone: (902)473-2700

This Doctor is in Nova Scotia, I think RacheaL reccomended him.
If you can go to your search engine just type in tell me about tos. Hope this helps.

WC , sounds like they are trying to start the dreaded vocational rehab. You shouldn't even be there at this point. How can one decide a career path while you are still trying to get help being fixed, your still in medical without reaching maximum medical improvement. Wc moves quick when they want you off the system( thats the only time they move quick). I wonder what your case manager would say if you said after I'm done with all medical I would love to look at options for retraining, but until surgery is complete, along with pt I should just concentrate on getting better and reducing pain. I will be pleased to look at options for retraining,after all medical treatments are done, thankyou etc. I imagine after surgery you will have another fce to determine any restrictions after surgery. Geez, How can you choose a career path if your not sure what you will be left with in terms of functioning and at what level, scedentary, light etc. Just some food for thought, take care and Happy Canada Day!

[flippnout]

Hey mucker good to meet you. Sorry it had to be in this situation but glad to see you have come to a great forum with people who have had this condition alot longer than us, and have more knowledge to share with us.

I hope you stick around in this great family of TOS'ers I also have to fight WC here in the US stay strong!