[noname]

I'm doing better. With that I have become, like most of you, hyperaware of all sorts of things and their possible impact, if any, on the TOS.

Personally I have two things. Costoclavicular Syndrome and Pec Minor Syndrome. (left worse than right...left has pain, right no pain).

Over the years the pain on the left was in a variety of spots, my chest, my arm, my neck, the upper trap...pretty much about 5-6 spots/areas.

With time, patience, exercise, PT, and stretches, it seems down to about 2 spots. the costoclavicular area about a 1" area of my left clavicle near the sternum and the top of my arm near the ac joint. Some days it is both some it is one or the other.

Lately I've noticed that the costoclaviular area is interesting. There is a sort of snapping/clicking going on, on top of the left clavicle near the sternum...it can happen there or within a 1"-2" square area around there. It generally comes with movement of the arm...it's very strange and weird and is ALWAYS associated with a flare up....i.e. if I'm flaring up...I click/snap away. If I have no flare up, there is no clicking/snapping. I had a friend feel it to show her that I wasn't making this up and I got the "oh, that's just gross" response. It's tiny clicks/snaps though, no big thunks/clunks. I haven't had it when the doctor was around or the Massage therapist. I've described it...they aren't sure yet what it is since it's something I've noticed more recently. The other thing is that I was on vacation last week and was thus able to be more in tune with this and every day between about 9:30 a.m. and 10 a.m it would start and I'd stretch and try to work it so gain relief and after about 30-45 minutes it would just go away. Yea..but it was as if it was TIMED to appear and disappear. Some times I'd take an advil before..no impact...sometimes an advil during...no impact. I'm even willing to bet that had I not stretched or tried to work it and merely laid down and dealt with it..it probably would have gone away in time by itself as well. (the stretching etc. FELT good to do and did provide some relief until the 30-45 minutes passed). I thought that strange as well. There is anything in particular that I have done to create this. I wake up fine...perhaps muscles are just generally tight (they are usually) and about 2-3 hours after I get this. Most of the time in the morning....rarely in the afternoon or evening...although I have had a few occassions then. Have no clue WHAT this is and why it seems to be on some time clock.

[gibbrn]

Hi,

I too have had popping or snapping of my muscles. Can't pin it to one specific time or what precipitates it, but it feels like one muscle is moving over the other one. It has happened when I got out of the car in a weird position one time. And when I initially injured myself. Don't know what has caused it or what it is but it hurts like the devil.

I have tried to explain this to others and they don't get it.....unless it happens to you then it is not really understood I guess......

take care,
Victoria

[wildberry2277]

I have had this snap poping thing for many years... It seems to flare my symptoms up... The only time it happens is when i look over my shoulder when driving... Suddenly you will hear the snapp and then I have to pull over because i experince weakness in my arm... My mom or friends have had to pick me up on several occasions because i cant drive myself... It hurts like you cant believe... Its like the muscle slips or something... I do feel for you...

Hope all is well with everyone

Hugs

[towelhorse]

Hi, towelhorse here I too have the clunking as I adopt certain postures. I showed my treating doctor how, if I moved my shoulder blade there was an audible clunk. If this happened several times my arm would become heavy and then I would get strange sensations in my arm and hand. The more often it occurred the worse all my TOS symptoms would become. At its worst my fingers curled up and I could not sign my signature. A couple of years later I was diagnosed with partial long thoracic nerve palsy. The serratus anterior weakness caused muscle imbalances around my scapula. as a consequence I had pec. Minor tightness when my serratus anterior weakened. I am sure that the clunking was the scapula bursa grating against my 2nd rib and compromising the long thoracic nerve. I suggest that when it occurs that you try to stop doing what you are doing at the time. My significant improvement (TOS and scapula stability) has only come about because I have either strapped or used a shoulder brace to stop the snapping scapula. if you search snapping scapula you will see what I mean.
http://www.drkelly.us/snapping%20scapula.asp
I am the only one on the planet who believes this, but everything which makes this rib, nerve and scapula problem worse makes TOS worse. For example, chest breathing, putting on weight around the abdomen which places greater pressure on the diaphragm, bending down to the ground, sitting, reaching upwards (stabilizing your scapula), driving, reading the newspaper, sleeping.
Put pressure on this nerve—lose scapula stability-pec. Minor muscle over compensates---hand tingles---trapezius and rhomboids over compensate—thoracic spine tightness—T4 syndrome---layers of pain—

Its weird, the PTs try to teach TOSers to abdomen breathe and surgeons remove ribs (unfortunately not the 2nd rib) and people have scalenectomies (the long thoracic nerve pierces the scalenus medius) I reckon they know that the ribs and scalenes are part of the problem but they don’t know why.

If you allow the clunking to occur too often there will be a burning sensation under the scapula. this is not good. It takes a long time to improve from this position, especially if you are expected to attend rehabilitation sessions. I am afraid rehabilitation waits for no one. Regards towelhorse

[noname]

1. although I do admit that my left scapula is a problem in that the surrounding muscles get tight from time to time or are generally tighter than they should be (and I'm working on strengthening these for better stability), I don't think what you describe is the culprit in MY case.
2. My musculature "clunks" from time to time in and around the scapula but usually not associated with pain...what I describe as a "clunk" is more a band of muscle fibers that are tight or knotted that need release. The clunk, in MY case, merely can be moved back and forth or it may on its own move back and forth but there is no increase in the pain or a creation of pain. I know this tightness is not good but it has a low priority because it doesn't cause or create pain. Massage therapists and Chiros have said it is quite common.
3. What I call "clicking/snapping" are quite tiny...think about tapioca pudding bubble size and popping those. And it falls literally within a 1-2" area around my left clavicle as it meets the manubrium that or near the first rib as it meets the manubrium. It may be referred pain from underneath but the clicking/snapping seem to appear on the top of these structure (whereas the Brachial Plexus is underneath). It is clearly related or part of the TOS as I have costoclavicular syndrome as well ...what is weird, at least for me, is the TIMING of this flare up. I awake fine other than general tight muscles which aren't too painful...the day progresses with my shower, brushing teeth, having breakfast and within about 2-3 hours of waking this flare up starts along with the clicking/snapping..I can then stretch and work it and within about 30-45 minutes it disappears...only to return the next day at the same time. Weird. I'm still working on seeing if I can prevent it or shorten it's time as it is relatively a new thing I've noticed. I haven't seen anything on the internet about this particular phenomenon. If it continues, I will have my doctor actually FEEL it. I have communicated with him about it and I would guess he will be interested to palpate it to see if he can tell WHAT it is. So far it seems to have dumbfounded the few specialists I've talked with. It may be a sort of subluxation between the rib and the clavicle as it meets the sternum that just happens to surface at that hour and with all the stretching etc., seems to work its way back. I'm just not sure WHY at that particular hour and for only the 30-45 minutes this happens.

[beth]

Maybe it's a flare-up in response to the showering, brushing teeth, eating - all the associated arm movements. I know for me, by the time I finish showering, washing, drying, (minimally), and styling hair(minimally), putting on just basic foundation and powder and getting dressed for church I am EXHAUSTED. Most days my hair's in a pony tail and I'm bumming 'round in shorts and tees or the like. Washing and drying my hair is one of my least favorite things to do!

Wonder if you could test this by showering the night before, or taking a warm bath in the morning for a few days, see if the pattern changes or stays the same?

beth

[noname]

Beth:

Nope. Because I do similar movements later in the day and nothing. Also, this appears about an hour to and hour and a half after hair, shower etc.

The fact that it appears to be on some sort of time clock has me baffled. I'm almost convinced if I lay down and do nothing it would appear and disappear. I haven't tested that theory yet.

It's definitely related to the TOS. In trying to research it further it appears to be a Sternoclavicular joint dislocation and then relocation...why it gets dislocated and then apparently relocated within about 30-45 minutes...is baffling. Stretching helps but it seems that the stretching is only to help relieve the discomfort until the expiration of the 30-45 minutes...once that time passes it stops and I'm virtually pain free. I still have some tightness in the nearby surrounding mucles e.g. scalenes etc. I think the ligaments that attach my clavicle to my manubrium are loose and that causes the tiny clicks/snaps. I got an appointment today to see my PT and will see her at a time when it "should" happen so she can palpate the heck out of it and tell me her opinion. I do have a sort of weird left clavicle at least at that end. So it may have something to do with that fact etc. And that joint IS related to movement of the scapula which makes sense since that movement IS translating to this joint when I get the clicking/snapping. It's just very weird.

[redjpwranglergirl]

Originally Posted by noname

Beth:

Nope. Because I do similar movements later in the day and nothing. Also, this appears about an hour to and hour and a half after hair, shower etc.

The fact that it appears to be on some sort of time clock has me baffled. I'm almost convinced if I lay down and do nothing it would appear and disappear. I haven't tested that theory yet.

It's definitely related to the TOS. In trying to research it further it appears to be a Sternoclavicular joint dislocation and then relocation...why it gets dislocated and then apparently relocated within about 30-45 minutes...is baffling. Stretching helps but it seems that the stretching is only to help relieve the discomfort until the expiration of the 30-45 minutes...once that time passes it stops and I'm virtually pain free. I still have some tightness in the nearby surrounding mucles e.g. scalenes etc. I think the ligaments that attach my clavicle to my manubrium are loose and that causes the tiny clicks/snaps. I got an appointment today to see my PT and will see her at a time when it "should" happen so she can palpate the heck out of it and tell me her opinion. I do have a sort of weird left clavicle at least at that end. So it may have something to do with that fact etc. And that joint IS related to movement of the scapula which makes sense since that movement IS translating to this joint when I get the clicking/snapping. It's just very weird.

When I read your first post, it reminded me of a time YEARS ago when I had a severe case of bronchitis and coughed so much and so hard that I ended up doing "something" to the cartilege/connective tissue (or whatever you call it) in my ribcage (according to the dr.). For the longest time, I not only had pain so severe I could hardly stand to take a deep breath but I would also "snap,crackle, and pop". So when you mentioned the ligaments being loose, another lightbulb went off in my head. My bad foot does something like that all the time- if I step or move it a certain way, you can hear and I feel a very loud pop. It doesn't really hurt, just sounds really gross. The dr. told me that it's a ligament (or tendon, I can't remember which one he said) that is slipping out of the groove of the place where it's supposed to be. Just off the top of my head, this problem you're describing sounds kinda like some kind of subluxation- I remember the chiro I used to work for saw some patients with that kind of problem. I can't remember if you've said so or not but have you seen a chiro about whether an adjustment would help?