[KathyM]

Why is it when a respected white person competes with a respected person of color, he/she finds the need to refer to his opponent as an animal. For example, "I saw the opportunity, so I tagged him" (hunting reference), and references to branding cattle (ownership).

Why do so many supposedly intelligent white people see brown people as animals? If they didn't believe it, they wouldn't be saying it. As they say, "you can't throw up what you haven't swallowed."

[lor]

Kathy, I didn't know that

[KathyM]

Thanks Lor

I'm often accused of being oversensitive, but I've never seen respectable white people do that to each other. Typically, they refer to the opponent as a fellow warrior or professional boxer.

With my Native American friends, they are often referred to as animals too. Mainstream society tries to appease them by calling them "savages" when they have to go up against them in competition. I guess that's where mainstream society gets the idea that's it should feel like an honor to them.

[clouds z]

obamas white worker who resigned called hilary a monster

i dont speak all lanugaes so i dont know what they call people in aisa or africa

blacks opress blacks in africa

i dont see your point really

but blacks were treated bad in usa at times

indians? indians use animals as names-like brave bear or red wolf or whatever

[DocJohn]

Well, I believe language and specific language references are more complex than that... For many, it's learned through their upbringing and there is still much racism in America behind closed doors. If you hear your mom and dad talk that way, some of that is going to worm its way into you and a little of your thinking (even if you believe none of it).

It then seeps out into public when people talk. But as Obama said, it can go both ways, and that's why race in America is still very much an issue.

In some parts of the country, I don't think it's that big an issue as in others. But we're a far way from racial equality across the board, across our country...

John

(As an aside, I know people hate desegregation, but as a child, I found it one of the few times in my life I interacted and lived within a completely different racial environment for 6 hours a day. I think I would be a different person if I hadn't had that experience, which taught me much. I think the more we live together, the more we learn together.)

[KathyM]

Thank you Clouds and DocJohn.

LOL Clouds - Indians give themselves and each other those names, as it should be. They don't use those names to attack or ridicule each other.

But you're right. I don't mean to sound like I'm accusing only white people of being racist. I see it in all races. However, I don't see any valid reason for such hatred in whites. It's not hatred, it's resentment because whites have never experienced any systemic generational trauma and loss. It doesn't justify the hatred in people of color, but it explains where it comes from. Comparing their pain to the treatment of Irish or German (white) immigrants to this country is highly insulting. No one forced them to come here, and they were never systemically hated for their skin color.

Another minister came out and said the only reason Obama is here is because his African father lusted over a white woman. I can't tell you how many times I've heard that crap before.

White people have asked me if I knew my son's father - as if I had been raped, or as if I were a whore. People think I was out for some sort of "exotic" sexual adventure or trying to get back at my parents (they liked my ex). I met my ex-husband in 1978 by chance through a mutual friend - his sister's husband, a friend of mine I worked with at the hospital. My ex and I were together for a total of 10 years, and we are still friends. My ex-MIL is still my "mother." Race had nothing to do with the breakup of our marriage. My son is fortunate to have two fathers who love him very much.

People have asked me "where did you get the little "n****r" boy - as if I bought him in a store. People have asked my son if his father was a PIMP! Excuse me, he was a Fireman! He rescued people of ALL colors from burning buildings!

When I was pregnant, people pushed me to give my son up for adoption because I was going through a divorce. It wasn't because of the financial burden, it was because of his race. People made jokes saying I was about to give birth to a "gorilla."

When my son was small, I was invited to a Bunco party by a very close friend. I only knew a few people there. I was speaking with one woman, and she asked if my son had green eyes and light brown hair like me. Before I could answer her, the few people I knew busted out laughing and told her my son is "muuuuuulato" (I don't like that term). Before I could say anything, the "n****r" jokes started flying around the room. I got up and left.

Why should racist people like this be handled with kid gloves or excused for their hatred? It's absolutely disgusting and goes against everything this country claims (equal rights) and everything churches proclaim (love). I try my hardest, but when people tell me that "Jesus" can open their hearts, I don't believe it. They only use "Jesus" to justify their hatred - if not for blacks, it's hatred of homosexuals, or Mexicans, or Muslims.

I wonder sometimes - are we ALL animals, or are we ALL human beings?

[Chemar]

((((Kathy)))) I know you care deeply and you have experienced personally what racism does.

I think bigoted and prejudiced people will use whatever religion, philosophy or doctrine or whatever they adhere to as their "basis" for their feelings and opinions. People have a tendency to twist many things to fit their own narrowed view.

As a South African born person, who grew up in a family who abhorred racism of any form, I am really deeply saddened to see how much of it there really is in the US, and the intensity thereof And when it comes from *any* religious group, it saddens me even more.
As an aside, altho my classification in south africa during the awful "apartheid" years was "white", my Portughese heritage was frequently and hurtfully scorned by some, as that made me "less white", especially with my dark hair and olive skin............
But all those years in SA also taught me that racism goes way beyond just pigmentation and cultural issues.........it is something that, as clouds mentioned, even people of the same skin color and basic cultural similarities, practice against one another. Tribal and ethnic and religious divides are inherent all over Africa. Have been since long before the Europeans invaded and brought even more divisions.

same in Europe itself. same all over the world, sadly.

I noticed an item in the Health News Headlines forum that lead me to this article on Doc's PsychCentral site, about learning compassion
http://psychcentral.com/news/index.p...ing+compassion

I think if more people had compassion, we would see a lot less racism. As Doc said above, it takes being around people who are different from ourselves to maybe get a deeper insight into them and a much greater understanding and appreciation for them.

[KathyM]

Cheri - Yup. I know you've seen your share.

We teach our kids to share the toys in the sandbox, but we get totally freaked out if we're told to share our wealth or comfort as adults. As adults, we are encouraged to arm ourselves in order to protect our toys. I guess that's why "ultimate fighting" for kids is becoming popular. Maybe we are no longer teaching our kids to share. I guess it's better to teach them to beat each other to a pulp to prove themselve or get what they want out of life. Maybe I'm just getting old.

It really makes me mad when people use God to justify their hatred - or use God's power as their own to protect and further their own political interests. Who wins when all sides believe they have God on their side? In war, only the most vicious and deceptive - only the ones with the biggest guns. I never realized admission into heaven was based on the firepower of your gun.

[MelodyL]

Chemar:

I have a very interesting story to tell you. As soon as you mentioned you were born in South Africa, this memory came right back to me.

I used to work for a company TATA INC. in NYC. It was an Import Export company. Worked there for 7 or 8 years.So this happened between 1972 and 1980. Can't be more specific as to when I met her.

One day a beautiful black girl came to work for the guy who had the desk in front of me. His name was Marvin, and his new secretary was called Bongi. We asked her where she was from and she said "I am from South Africa".

Marvin would always tell the story that when she was introduced to him, she curtsied. He got such a kick of how formal she behaved. I have no idea how old she was but she must have been in her early twenties. Her last name was Nelson and she was married. We asked her what Bongi stood for and she said (Now I can't spell it how it's spelled) but she said 'Symbongileh", but everybody calls me Bongi."

So we called her Bongi. She only worked for 6 or so months but we picked her brain about South Africa. She was a beautiful delicate young girl with an afro close to her head. We found her fascinating. She also taught me some XHOSA words (I believe it was her native language). She also spoke Afrikaans.

Well, she described a typical day in South Africa as not being able to cross a street if a white person was standing on the other side of that street. She told me of having to stay in certain places because the whites would not let you go into their places. You also had to carry certain papers on your if you wanted to go anyplace. Now none of us working in this office had ever experienced anything like that, so we just listened and were amazed at what she had gone through in her young life.

BUT IF YOU THINK THAT'S AMAZING, WAIT UNTIL YOU HEAR WHO SHE ACTUALLY WAS!!!!

Some months following her leaving our office someone brought a magazine to work and said 'YOU WILL NEVER BELIEVE WHO BONGI IS??" We said "what are you talking about??" And then she opened the magazine and guess who she was??

MIRIAM MAKEBA'S DAUGHTER!!!

And there was our Bongi, up on the stage next to Miriam Makeba, dancing on the stage. We all grabbed the magazine and stared and said "oh my god, that's Bongi".


Sadly, she died in 1985. There is not too much written about Miriam Makeba's daughter Bongi. She never told us who her famous mother was. I only wish she had done so. only know that at the time I met her, she was married to a guy whose last name was Nelson. What a lovely young woman she was.

[kinch52]

Hi Kathy,

I think you are very brave to bring this subject up. It's a subject most of us are afraid to talk about in an open forum. I'm always amazed at people when they say they don't understand how people of color are so angry because we, as Americans, are not racists. Then, of course, they go into detail about why they feel justified in their stereotypes of other people.

I loved Doc John's response. Like him, I grew up in a time when the schools & everything else was segregated. I was in the deep south & the first black students in my school was in my senior year. And, there were only two in my graduating class. I always thought them to be truly brave people. They went through ****.

I think the all of us are prejudice in some form. I remember being at a seminar that a friend of mine (a black male) was lecturing at & he asked "who in this room is prejudice in some form?". Well, being a liberal, white woman, I didn't raise my hand. He called me out & said I know you, even you have your own set of judgments & prejudices. His point was that we all tend to connect to the familiar & are afraid of things that are different, that's why we segregate ourselves. That overcoming our feelings of fear of people who are different than us is what makes us the people we really want to be.

So, I believe that for most people, it's not really hate, it's fear that fuels our emotions & actions. We don't understand what other races are going through. It's not that most white people hate people of color, they just don't know how to overcome their fear of not knowing the culture, of saying the wrong thing, doing the wrong thing & don't want to feel guilty about being white.

True racism is systemic, it goes deep within that persons soul. Racists hate everybody ....... people of color, Muslims, gays, Jews, Catholics, etc. I can't even pretend to understand why but I have to believe it's something evil or sick in them. There is no justification for their behavior.

For the rest of us, a little tolerance goes a long way. People say stupid things that they don't neccessarily intend to hurt. Heck, I'm pretty sure we have all said insensitive things without thinking, I know I have! I always told my daughter as she was growing up that it wasn't what she said but how it impacted the person she said it to that was important.

Personally, I'm glad this debate is out in the open again. The more we learn about each other, the better we will be able to get along. Being the eternal optimist, I think we will get there. It's becoming more of a global world every day, we have to. It may be slow going but alot has changed since I was a kid & I'm sure alot more will change before my grandson is an adult.