[kimmydawn]

After being rear-ended twice with two cases of whiplash, an x-ray revealed (when I was seen for second accident) that I have zero curve in cervical spine and the doctor acted like it was really a big deal and recommended me to a "spine specialist".

I was feeling OK and didn't go as it was also at the time that our family's world was turned upside down and I had to care night and day for my daughter and little man, as well as unborn grandchild.

I've been having on and off semi-numbness, pins and needles, and tingling down my left arm on the outside (elbow down to ring and pinkie fingers), but also at times down into my left foot (most of the time it was the outside toes as well but now it just starts there and will move all the way to big toe and include top side of foot). Sometimes both feet are involved, but mostly it's the left.

You know the feeling when your leg has fallen asleep and you've just changed your position to get blood flow back to it...that pins and needles, tingling with still some numbness there? That's the way it feels...though sometimes my outside toes will feel completely numb, minus the rest.

Also, every single night in bed I'm doing it now with my arms. I can only lay in one position that one of my arms or hands won't do that.

I've found, now, that I'm holding myself very stiff as well...shoulders always high and tense and I don't know when this began and I can get dizzy out of the clear blue. It's like I'll turn or move quickly and my body stops turning/moving but my brain doesn't. It's strange and only lasts a few seconds.

I know I should follow-up with the specialist now that things are calming down in my world (I couldn't have done PT or anything regular if my life had depended on it before), but I just wondered if showing zero curve in my cervical spine is as concerning as the doctor's face showed it to be...he almost seemed shocked...repeating there was absolutely none.

Does anyone know anything about this that they can share? I wonder if this could it be a cause for the semi-numbness, pins and needles, tingling and weird "dizziness" that I feel?

When going through all the upset with daughter's illness, etc., I chalked it up to stress, tension, etc. It's not gone away though, but is even more persistent, it seems. It's now becoming an issue that I don't think I can put on the back burner or ignore.

Anything shared would be appreciated.

KD

[Jomar]

hmm, some of what you mention could be a form or start of thoracic outlet syndrome... whiplash, and other car accidents can be a factor in cases of it.

Have you ever done chiropractic? {expert one of course}
You might need a c1/c2 upper cervical adjustment and most likely the whole spine and some PT sessions with soft tissue work.

let me know if you want more info or the useful sticky on the TOS forum post # 1 has chiro, triggerpoint, bodywork- all kinds of helpful info.

the feet and leg stuff could be tied in to misalignments only lower in the spine.

[kimmydawn]

I was afraid the the feet issue might be separate. I've never really had issues with my back, but lower back, hip and leg arthritis runs heavily throughout my family as one ages.

That said, a chiro did say many years ago that I have definite scoliosis of the spine, but it wasn't severe and could be addressed later...that was about 15 or so years ago?

I'm petrified of certain things with dr's. and when they wanted to treat my first case of whiplash, they put my head in traction. I never went back. That couldn't happen again. See about five years prior, there was an incident with a dr. who put my head in a devise after an injection (he was later convicted and lost licensing forever with serving jail time as well-by the time the police acted there had been many women with my being the first to file a police report. The poor young woman who helped the police by wearing a wire died before the case and her civil suit was completed. She did know, though, before her death that he would never "practice" again).

I don't know how much I could tolerate of PT or chiro. That's sad, but true. I feel weak for it, but can't stand the thoughts of it.

Now if someone goes with me, I might be able to tolerate it. We'll have to see what the specialist says.

I feel stuck and I've realized typing this it's probably another reason I've put off treatment and following through.

Thanks for the information, Jo. Again, I feared they were two separate issues (never occurring at the same time, etc.) as my lower back screams at me if I sleep longer than 5-6 hours, etc. Ugh, getting old bites! LOL

Thanks again.

KD

[watsonsh]

HI KD,

. I had the same thought as JO, that some of the sx sound similar to TOS. And based on how stiff you are holding yourself could be putting pressure on some of those nerves inthe cervical area and brachial plexus.

Be careful at the computer not to lapse into forward head posture. We all do it but I have to be conscious of it because prolonged periods make me sore. And make sure you have an ergonomic set up.

The spine doc I recently went did say that the higher up the injury on the spine, ie cervical the more untable your whole spine becomes and then other areas of your spine compensate for the instability and could be causing some of your leg symptoms. For example do you hurt sometimes between the shoulder balde? I do but nothing wrong with my thoracic spine. But what happens is my thoracic spine is it is a broad area and it then take the load for keeping me stable when my head is floppy (hmmmm I think floppy head affects my brain ) Just a little cervical humor there.

When it comes to the lumbar area which is probably causing your leg symptoms, try to notice in the midst of normal activites how you pelvic area is positioned. If your posture is trying to stabilize your neck you could be forcing your pelvis backward to compensate which can put you into something called kyphosis (flattening of the back curve) which will put pressure on those lower discs.

The spine and back are an amazing machine and sometimes to stabilize we dont even realize how we have to hold oursleves which is making other areas stressed.

I googled zero curve a little. Is there any kind of brace they can give you to help change the curve slowly that you could wear at home etc. Our head is heavy and those poor muscles around that area get fatigued holding it up. There is constant tension to keep the head balances. Maybe a brace intermittently would help. Maybe a zero gravity chair to relax in at night? They have some at relax the back. Or cervical pillows to sleep on to help the curve.

To hold yourself right you have to havestrong abdominals. This is my problem. I have no strength there. Makes my posture worse.

SOunds like chaning the curve will take time. And be a little uncomfortable.

One gentle thing you could try is Cranio Sacral Massage. I get nervous around chiros and neck adjustments when I read an article about if they jerk too fast they can damage the blood vessels in the area but cranio sacral helps me even if it is temporary. Although a chiro might help you with some exercises for the posture. My chiro had a contraption that changes curves that you could do at home. I will try to find the name of it. I think it cost like $300.

PT might help. Atleast they could give you some exercises to work at home. Dont let them talk you into surgery as the 1st step. Try PT and a combination of things.

[kimmydawn]

Oh, wow, thank you so much for the information! I'm going to bite it off in bits and pieces because there's alot of great advice there!

A couple of things standing out to me is your mentioning the area between the shoulder blade....OH MY GOSH. It's not smack dab between them but off to the left side (same side and interesting, yes?) I have the most amazing, insane tingle itch that I could literally scratch the skin off my back and it wouldn't be satiated. I've narrowed that down to when I'm sitting at the computer for a longer period...night time. I've scratched sores before...but it's a burning itch/tingle...feeling a weird numbness on the very surface of my skin. So strange. I figured it had to do with my posture at the computer and that might be a complete explanation for that.

Several times recently hubby has lookd at me and said, "Kim, honey, sit up. You never did that before and you look almost doubled in half." My shoulders roll forward significantly and they're so tight and tense.

The muscles in my neck hurt literally at any given time...that's the truth. If they don't hurt me, all I have to do is touch and have soft spots (mostly on the right though...strange), even up into the lower part of my head.

When I was typing this last night, I tried to relax my shoulders and let them drop down (but not forward) and it hurt...when i pushed it, I almost started spasming. It actually even had a "pulling hurt" but not bad just bruised feeling, it the front of my chest! Now, if I let them drop forward, it doesn't hurt my neck but my back between my shoulder blades will ache, then soon after I'll go into that insane burning itch over the left.

It makes so much sense what you said about the lower back compensating.

If I move my neck around too much (say twirl it around to try to work it...loosen it up), I'll actually get lightheaded/headrush feeling. If I turn my head at a 90 degree angle and hold it, I'll get lightheaded when I bring my head straight again...like a small headrush or something. It always hurts on the right side, back of neck to do that.

I appreciate you all sharing so much. I'm really apprehensive about all of this...especially know that I have no good excuse not to address it now and I figure knowledge is the best power in preparation to combating the massive anxiety I'm feeling with the treatment potentials.

See, I haven't allowed myself to think much about it, but as I'm typing this and it comes together, I really need to bite the bullet, don't I?

Thank you so much because I'm beginning to have a bit more understanding and that always lessens my anxieties about something. It's very good to know that I won't be alone while doing it.

KD

[Curious]

kimmy, there are good and bad chiro's like there are good and bad dr's.

talking to the chiro and getting a non spinal or cervical adjustment first is a good idea. you may have an ankle or a knee that is out of wack or an elbow. it will give you a "taste" of how the dr treats and their bed side manner. also help aliviate any fears.

boy howdy with my back problems i have to be super careful. i did tons of research. we had a clinic at he club, so having a personal relationship helped, but i still have never had any adjustments near my injury.

the zero curve....it's getting to be a major issue with computer use. it's seen in young kids now too.

i haven't read the whole thread...so i might be giving you advice you have already gotten.

but think of the releif like when a joint you have feels stuck..like an ankle or elbow and it "pops'. the ahhh feeling. it can be just like that.

[Jomar]

maybe something like this would help-
http://www.healiohealth.com/tek9.asp...cific=jrpofpp8

took me awhile to find it , couldn't recall the name of the thing.

also i really liked the books by Pete Egoscue
in libraries - and his site -
http://www.egoscue.com/painfree/painfree.php


If you decide to see any PT or DC request a "get to know you" or eval visit before any treatment - tell them of your concerns due to the from previous care.

[watsonsh]

Oooo Jo I like that Helio thing!

The thing my chiro uses is below. Called the posture pump. Slowly uses inflated pillows over time at different levels to get the curve back.

http://www.promedproducts.com/s.nl/s...FRwbagodAQYgcg

Sorry have to run. Am showing someone around L.A. today

[Kathi49]

Kimmydawn,

OMG! And oh he@@ no don't let a Chiro touch your neck at all! I am sorry if I am so abrupt but it never ceases to amaze me when people have Chiro's adjust their necks. That is something you NEVER, EVER want to do!!! Hey, I have been through this cervical spine stuff for 8 years now and also have no curve in my cervical spine either. I do have two fusions though. I tried traction too in the very beginning. Bad move and bad mistake! All it did was to create more pain and more spasms. Oh, boy, if my PM could read this thread he would be blasting away about ANY form of manipulations. If anything, get thyself to a GOOD SPINAL pain management doctor. They can at least help you maybe through injections and with muscle relaxers, etc. THEN you could perhaps go into rehab or PT of a sort to help with your neck. My point is really...until you know PRECISELY what might be going on besides no curve, don't do anything that might aggravate it and that includes PT. If it is just muscular in nature then the PM can tell you as much. In the meantime yes of course watch the posture, etc. And even wearing a soft collar could help with spasms. It might help too if you go over to Braintalk and post this same message. There are plenty of seasoned veterans over there that could tell you the same thing I just did. Just NO MANIPULATIONS until you KNOW EXACTLY what is going on. I do agree with massage therapy as long as it is light. That is something else that the docs have warned me about....just to go very, very easy.

[momzpeachy]

Hi

I have been active in the TOS forum as I have been diagnosed with bilateral TOS and recently had surgery on the right side which no doubt conirmed it. All nerve roots were compressed. I am having a rough time recovering and things are not going well for me.

I saw a chiro who thought he could "cure me". He still thinks he can. All he wanted to do was spinal adjustments and he didn't look at any tests or order any. He adjusted my neck a few times and OH MY IT HURT! He said "I was stuck". My problems just kept getting worse and I started having dizziness and ringing in the ears along with everything else. I stopped going to the Chiro and ended up having the surgery.

I also had cervical spine issues but nobody gave it much weight. My symptoms were so severe and they thought it was all due to TOS. Well now I still have the same symptoms and then some. I've been worse than I was. I have such bad headaches that I can't open my eyes. I can't even sit up anymore. I feel like my head is way to heavy for my body. My neck (spine) just BURNS and I feel like throwing up because it hurts so bad. I have numbness and tingling down arms and left leg. I have trouble now going to the bathroom, trouble walking, and my thumbs are killing me. That's a few the worst symptoms. I can't stand it!

I was sent for another MRI Thursday night and I almost couldn't handle it. It took forever because they couldn't get me comfortable (still sore from TOS surgery) then to top everything off....the machine broke and they told me to lay still til they fixed it..YEAH RIGHT! It took them 30 min! What a night. by the time I was done I was SICK!

Anyways...I have no curve at all. I have spondylosis, disc herniation C4-C6, degenerative hypertrophy and they are still looking to see how severe this all is as to whether I will need surgery. There were signs of all this on 2 previous MRI's but it has been getting worse. I don't know why. Everyone keeps asking me what's wrong with me and why is this happening. I truly don't get it.

I am scared and I dont know if I can withstand another surgery. I'd like to hear and learn more about spinal fusion surgery. I believe I need to prepare myself for this. I cry every day when I look at my neck from the TOS surgery and it is so painful. I just don't know if I will have any other choices at this point. I am on so much meds and it doesn't work.

I have been told none of this is "normal" ok...why and no what?

Good night all