[leonore]

well, I just got my biopsy results back from endoscopy, and quick research shows this h-pylori bacteria, when treated, helps reabsoption of levadopa, and returns one to longer "on" periods. Anyone care to share what they know?? Leonore (on vacation in Cape Cod at cell at 347 489 9123)

[reverett123]

leonore, there is some serious danger here so be careful. Do a forum search and you will find the full story, but the condensed version is that the standard way of doing things is to hit the HP with a mix of antibiotics and wipe it out.

A healthy person can do that but for a PWP it can be the end and I'm not kidding. The problem is that all those dead bacteria flood the system with toxins. Our slow GI tract, leaky gut wall, and leaky BBB combine to spread the toxin to places that we definitely don't want it. It can do serious nerve damage and even put you into a wheelchair.

You may remember Ron's experience with his infected tooth recently. Same toxin but in the case of HP eradication there is a lot more of it, it hits all at once, and it is in areas beyond your defenses.

So, what to do? Good question. My own answers are tentative so don't put too much faith into them, but....

First, consider the possibility that HP is not the problem but that its overgrowth is. There is reason to suspect that it may be beneficial in lower numbers. It lives nowhere but the human stomach. Killing one's host is bad design.

Second, get the GI tract working before doing anything. Whatever it takes.

Third, one thing that both stimulates the GI tract and kills HP is rhubarb root. I try to take it a few days evey now and then and it seems to have it under control. But remember hat the idea is reduction of numbers, not eradication.

Fourth, follow up with probiotics. I know that HP is in the stomach and everyone else is downstream, but I do it anyway.

Finally, and I haven't tried this yet, there is an intriguing treatment using healing clays to absorb toxins from the GI tract. Seems like it would fit right in.

Anyway, be careful.

Originally Posted by leonore

well, I just got my biopsy results back from endoscopy, and quick research shows this h-pylori bacteria, when treated, helps reabsoption of levadopa, and returns one to longer "on" periods. Anyone care to share what they know?? Leonore (on vacation in Cape Cod at cell at 347 489 9123)

[lou_lou]

this is for Leonore She wants more info please - Ron Hutton? was it you? looking for your thread...
...

[leonore]

thanks so much for your heads-up. My neurologist is going to thoroughly research this, and get back to me. I appreciate the time you took to warn me of treatement risks. Luckily, colonoscopy done at the same time as endoscopy showed GI was ok, otherwise. But the HP was found in a biopsy done on a node, so there's more to the story. Still, the fact that my stalevo has been so irrregularly working, means that there's a good chance that this is the rest of the explanation why I'm off so ridiculously often lately. Leonore

[annefrobert]

Eleonore,

Indeed, your question is a hard one, nobody having really much experience.


From a neurologic point of view

1. May Helicobacter Pylori be the main cause of your IPD?

On its own, no, PD is for sure a multiple hits on-going process.

As a co-factor, yes most probably, in a certain amount of cases, but the big problem is to know by who and to which extent?

(see the case I report, #1 in pdf file).

2. Is it important to eradicate your Helicobacter Pylori

Classically, there is no consensual protocol defined about this problem, very few searchers and MD are aware of the different problems involved.

Theorically, yes, it could be an interesting improvement to get rid of a cause of chronic inflammation

(see #2 in pdf file).

3. Is it dangerous to try?

The problem is not the eradication itself but the way to do it

(see the studies of SM Dobbs, #3 in pdf file)

4. Who could help?

I would suggest you or your doctor or neurologist to search Marshall protocol on Google and then, if convinced, to contact Trevor Marshall

(see # 4)

I hope all these data will help you.
If you don't want to go that far, I would suggest you to follow Rick's expert advices as they result from his own experience (the rhubarb trial) and from our collaborative works upon the question.
Please give us news about your choices.

Anne

[annefrobert]

Still, the fact that my stalevo has been so irrregularly working, means that there's a good chance that this is the rest of the explanation why I'm off so ridiculously often lately. Leonore

I would not bet for this, Eleonore,
could you please give the exact treatment -doses and schedule- that has been prescribed to you and approximative schedule of your off sessions please

Anne

[Chemar]

just wanted to share our success eradicating h.pylori with Mastic Gum (aka Gum Mastica from Greece) which kills the bug (we got ours in capsule form at our local Vitamin Shoppe branch (www.vitaminshoppe.com) and also DGL- licuorice root, which heals the ulcerated areas.

It *must* be DGL-liquorice (usually comes in cheawable wafers- we like the one by NOW Foods which i get at www.iherb.com ) Other forms of liquorice root are not the same in GIT mucosal healing properties, and regular liquorice root can elevate blood pressure, so do be sure to only use DGL-liquorice root for this (DGL = Deglycyrrhizinised liquorice )

hope that can maybe help if you need to try to avoid the chemical rx drug route.

[indigogo]

Rick - I didn't know that about antibiotics and leftover bacterial toxins.

18 months ago, because of an infected cat bite on my hand, I ended up in the hospital for three days on continuous IV drip antibiotics followed up by 3 more weeks on high-spectrum oral antibiotics, and did not experience any side effects. By the time I was able to start treatment, my hand was swollen to the size of a softball and I had red streaks radiating up the entire length of my arm.

Is the danger when the infection has gone untreated for a length of time, the placement of the infection (closer to the gut), or if you don't get all of the infection?

Just so that I don't sound like a complacent doofus letting the infection get so bad before treatment, the injury occurred a few hours before I left my house on the West coast to fly to Washington DC. By the time I landed, only 12 hours after the bite, my hand was totally swollen; I went directly from the airport to the emergency room; after 6 hours in the emergency room I was finally admitted and treatment was begun. By that time the infection was so bad that I was attracting medical students sent into see the "fabulous example of agressive infection," and photographs were taken for teaching purposes!

This occurred at George Washington University Medical Center in DC, where I was really impressed by their staff - when I told the night nurse I had PD, she said, "well then it's important you get your meds on the right schedule!" and she let me keep my own until the next morning when I was given theirs.

[reverett123]

I am only referring to HP problems and those are only going to be in the stomach as it lives no where else (in theory at least). Your cat bite was a normal response of your immune system (to a very dangerous assault, BTW. Cat bites are legendary in veterinar circles.)

My own conclusions are that reducing the size of an HP infection is more sensible than nukeing it. Not only does the latter course risk poisoning yourself, it also destroys your immense number of microflora essential to your health. So, if we think of the problem as the result of longtime neglect throwing everything out of balance, the picture is more of a neglected garden where the roses need pruning and the violets are taking over.

HP is a fascinating little creature. It lives nowhere but the human stomach and is purportedly the only thing on the planet that is able to do so. It accomplishes this by corkscrewing itself into the stomach wall and allowing the protective mucous lining to protect it. At the same time, it lessens the acidity of the stomach juices by squirting out little clouds of a base substance called urease. This may have extra importance for two reasons - Proper stomach acidity is essential for proper nutrition and, two, urease reacts with the acid and results in ammonia. If ammonia finds its way into the CNS it screws up neurotransmission.

To show you just how marvelous the universe is, HP's toxin is stored in its cell wall. It is part of the structure, in fact. In that place the toxin is perfectly harmless. When it dies, however, the toxin is released. If a lot of them die at once then the toxin load can be dangerous. Different strains of HP have different levels of toxicity.

But the really neat part is that when HP senses an antibiotic it reacts by producing more toxin, in some cases by several hundred-fold! Think about that. In business, that is called a "poison pill defense". HP is pretty much harmless under normal conditions. Out of balance, however, you get ulcers and in the extreme, worse.

Most of us don't know if we have an active infection. If we end up taking antibiotics for something else we can accidentally poison ourself.

There is at least one other way to do it, too. And I speak from experience and have two damaged fingers to show for it. Raw turmeric is very effective at killing HP, but unlike rhubarb does not stimulate the GI tract. A couple of years ago I switched from tablets of turmeric which broke up in the intestine to ground spice turmeric which entered the stomach ready to rock and roll. It took me three weeks to figure out what was going on. I recovered everything but those two fingers which are still wonky today. A valuable reminder to me that in Nature the price of ignorance is high.

I think the answer is to reduce the size of the colony gradually and move the dead bodies out immediately. Buffering the toxin load with absorbent clays appeals to me. Also, the use of cranberry juice might be a good idea since it may interfere with HP's ability to get a toe hold (flagella hold?) on the stomach wall.

Somewhere I have an extensive file fron the first time we went over this subject. If I can find it I will post.

Maybe we could do an old 50s-style filmstrip, "HP - Friend or Foe."

Originally Posted by indigogo

Rick - I didn't know that about antibiotics and leftover bacterial toxins.

18 months ago, because of an infected cat bite on my hand, I ended up in the hospital for three days on continuous IV drip antibiotics followed up by 3 more weeks on high-spectrum oral antibiotics, and did not experience any side effects. By the time I was able to start treatment, my hand was swollen to the size of a softball and I had red streaks radiating up the entire length of my arm.

Is the danger when the infection has gone untreated for a length of time, the placement of the infection (closer to the gut), or if you don't get all of the infection?

Just so that I don't sound like a complacent doofus letting the infection get so bad before treatment, the injury occurred a few hours before I left my house on the West coast to fly to Washington DC. By the time I landed, only 12 hours after the bite, my hand was totally swollen; I went directly from the airport to the emergency room; after 6 hours in the emergency room I was finally admitted and treatment was begun. By that time the infection was so bad that I was attracting medical students sent into see the "fabulous example of agressive infection," and photographs were taken for teaching purposes!

This occurred at George Washington University Medical Center in DC, where I was really impressed by their staff - when I told the night nurse I had PD, she said, "well then it's important you get your meds on the right schedule!" and she let me keep my own until the next morning when I was given theirs.

[indigogo]

Thanks for the reply, Rick. I guess I got confused because of your reference to Ron's tooth infection; I extrapolated that it meant there was danger from all infections.