[mrsD]

I decided to do some specific keyword searches since more
people are showing up here with this symptom.

Another word for this is "thermal hyperalgesia". And typically rats are induced with this symptom and studied.

I have found two interesting things so far.

1) that oral magnesium helps this symptom:
http://www.journals.elsevierhealth.c...04535/abstract

2) and that the NMDA receptors are affected in its expression:
http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=2995642
This paper is rather pithy, but the essence is that the NMDA receptor is involved with this pain.
And magnesium is known to block this receptor to some extent.
Here is more on NMDA receptors and their blocking agents:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NMDA_receptor

I have attended pain seminars and most recently one that included Fibromyalgia. Fibro is currently thought to be a disorder where conventional neurons fire to a greater extent than normal under normal stimulus conditions. It is thought that this is a hereditary tendency. (like turning your volume up on a radio too loudly). So current treatments focus on CENTRAL intervention. The use of mixed acting antidepressants like Elavil, and pain relief using Tramadol.
Notice that tramadol is listed as a NMDA antagonist on the above Wiki site. The use of Lyrica and Neurontin also fit into this theory. Fibro often starts with a trigger. Viral, and trauma are the two most common triggers.

So we are back to what YOU can do for this.
1) make sure you are getting enough magnesium daily.
see my magnesium thread:
http://neurotalk.psychcentral.com/thread1138.html

2) avoid foods with MSG in them. Read labels, and be careful in restaurants. This additive is heavily used in soups and other creamy foods to make them "taste better". Flavored chips, and snacks are loaded with it.

3) avoid aspartame (Nutrasweet) since it delivers aspartate to the NMDA receptor. Avoid supplements with "aspartate" listed.
There is a magnesium aspartate out there--avoid that one.

4) There are some papers out there that suggest that Substance P is involved in transmission of pain signals:
http://www.biomedexperts.com/Abstrac...nd_amino_acids

One way to reduce substance P is to have the proper ratio of Omega-3 fatty acids in the diet. A heavy intake of Omega-6's (most common) tends to make Prostaglandin series 2 cytokines which are implicated in pain and inflammation.
Series 2 are released during trauma and other biological stressors. When they are excessive, you end up in a bad place. They are meant to be temporary fixes but end up more permanent.
So reducing Omega-6 fats, and increasing Omega 3's will help balance this in your body, and reduce the inflammatory prostaglandins. I have a thread about this here:
http://neurotalk.psychcentral.com/thread6092.html

This seems like a lot at first to absorb, but slowly as you look over the material out there, you will realize that you can do some things yourself.
The lay press is now filled with Omega-3 information. When I started this journey over a decade ago, I had to root around to find it--but it was there even then.
We have Smart Foods now with Omega-3s added. I have them listed on that thread.

Flax oil and fish oil are at the heart of Omega-3 supplements.
Also you need MAGNESIUM and B6 to metabolize them properly. B6 also helps the body deal with excess glutamate.
http://www.msgtruth.org/remedies.htm

Taurine is mentioned here. This amino acid is very good for people with insulin problems, and also helps with gall bladder issues. It complexes the bile salts and helps you pass them without forming sludge or stones.
Taurine is not expensive and has no appreciable side effects.
1000mg a day is typical.

[dshue]

Originally Posted by mrsD

I decided to do some specific keyword searches since more
people are showing up here with this symptom.

Another word for this is "thermal hyperalgesia". And typically rats are induced with this symptom and studied.

I have found two interesting things so far.

1) that oral magnesium helps this symptom:
http://www.journals.elsevierhealth.c...04535/abstract

2) and that the NMDA receptors are affected in its expression:
http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=2995642
This paper is rather pithy, but the essence is that the NMDA receptor is involved with this pain.
And magnesium is known to block this receptor to some extent.
Here is more on NMDA receptors and their blocking agents:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NMDA_receptor

I have attended pain seminars and most recently one that included Fibromyalgia. Fibro is currently thought to be a disorder where conventional neurons fire to a greater extent than normal under normal stimulus conditions. It is thought that this is a hereditary tendency. (like turning your volume up on a radio too loudly). So current treatments focus on CENTRAL intervention. The use of mixed acting antidepressants like Elavil, and pain relief using Tramadol.
Notice that tramadol is listed as a NMDA antagonist on the above Wiki site. The use of Lyrica and Neurontin also fit into this theory. Fibro often starts with a trigger. Viral, and trauma are the two most common triggers.

So we are back to what YOU can do for this.
1) make sure you are getting enough magnesium daily.
see my magnesium thread:
http://neurotalk.psychcentral.com/thread1138.html

2) avoid foods with MSG in them. Read labels, and be careful in restaurants. This additive is heavily used in soups and other creamy foods to make them "taste better". Flavored chips, and snacks are loaded with it.

3) avoid aspartame (Nutrasweet) since it delivers aspartate to the NMDA receptor. Avoid supplements with "aspartate" listed.
There is a magnesium aspartate out there--avoid that one.

4) There are some papers out there that suggest that Substance P is involved in transmission of pain signals:
http://www.biomedexperts.com/Abstrac...nd_amino_acids

One way to reduce substance P is to have the proper ratio of Omega-3 fatty acids in the diet. A heavy intake of Omega-6's (most common) tends to make Prostaglandin series 2 cytokines which are implicated in pain and inflammation.
Series 2 are released during trauma and other biological stressors. When they are excessive, you end up in a bad place. They are meant to be temporary fixes but end up more permanent.
So reducing Omega-6 fats, and increasing Omega 3's will help balance this in your body, and reduce the inflammatory prostaglandins. I have a thread about this here:
http://neurotalk.psychcentral.com/thread6092.html

This seems like a lot at first to absorb, but slowly as you look over the material out there, you will realize that you can do some things yourself.
The lay press is now filled with Omega-3 information. When I started this journey over a decade ago, I had to root around to find it--but it was there even then.
We have Smart Foods now with Omega-3s added. I have them listed on that thread.

Flax oil and fish oil are at the heart of Omega-3 supplements.
Also you need MAGNESIUM and B6 to metabolize them properly. B6 also helps the body deal with excess glutamate.
http://www.msgtruth.org/remedies.htm

Taurine is mentioned here. This amino acid is very good for people with insulin problems, and also helps with gall bladder issues. It complexes the bile salts and helps you pass them without forming sludge or stones.
Taurine is not expensive and has no appreciable side effects.
1000mg a day is typical.

Great information mrsD, especially the link on NMDA antagonists.

I have a simple, probably dumb question though after reading on fish oil.

I'm taking the Whole Foods OmegaForce 3-6-9 Complex three times a day. But should I just be taking the omega 3's and eliminate the 6's?

Thanks.

-- Dennis

[shiney sue]

Thank you once again so very much.............Sue

[mrsD]

I'd switch over to a quality fish oil instead.

Most of the 6's in the mixtures is primrose or borage oil.
Check your label.

This type of 6 is ok for neuropathy. It is the basic omega-6 called linoleic acid that is the one to avoid in large amounts.
Linoleic acid is converted to the inflammatory PGE2s.

Flax oil supplies Omega-3...alpha linoleNic acid which goes to making PGE1s which are healthful.

Fish oil blocks the final steps to making the inflammatory PGE2s.

Primrose/Borage supplies GLA which is an intermediate Omega-6. There are studies suggesting primrose for neuropathies. They are mostly old studies.
The GLA works to send the Flax oil to its good target.
It also sends the linoleic acid to its inflammatory targets.

Here is an example of a good 3-6-9 ...
http://www.herbalremedies.com/superomega369.html

It is unclear how much linoleic acid (omega-6) is really in it.

So do this: Take only one of your 3-6-9. And add a quality fish oil to it...at least 3 a day. Take with food.

And here is another trivia factoid. Males to not convert Flax oil well to the long chain fatty acids EPA and DHA (which are in fish oil). Females DO convert well because they have babies, and the fetus has a huge demand for DHA for brain development. So males do not convert Flax efficiently and hence need more fish oil. If I remember it is about 4% for males and around 23% for females.

I'd also eat the new "smart foods"...
Smart Balance peanut butter.
Smart Balance spreads (butter substitute)
Smart Balance Mayo
Omega-3 eggs (Eggland's best etc).
There are some yogurts and cheeses coming onto the market now too.
Some Kraft salad dressings have canola in them now.
You can make your own with flax oil --which tastes really good.
Good Season's makes powders that you mix with your own
vinegar and oil. We did this when my son was getting off his Ritalin and we were using Flax heavily. This fixed his ADHD and acne, and was the basic event that brought me to this subject and the net in general!
Some chips are made with canola now.
You get the idea. It is much easier today to do the dietary balancing of essential fats, than it was when I began over a decade ago.

Take the oils with food. They are better absorbed that way.
And there are now enteric coated fish oils, which we use, that are at Costco and SAMs club, and on the net too. This minimizes "fish burps". Keep all the oils in the frig for storage.
I leave about 20-30 doses out on the counter for daily use. All the back ups are in the frig.

Costco has a coupon book out this month for NatureMade vits...$3.50 off each with no limit. I just got our Flax oil for the next year this way. Many of the drug chains have BuyOne get One free on their NatureMade also. So watch the circulars.

The ratio of Omega-3 to Omega-6 should ideally be 1:1 up to 1:5. The average American has a ratio of 1:25. This is why we see so many inflammatory conditions plaguing us.