[cyclelops]

Does any one have any idea if IVIG would give you a high ANA? Mine is at 1:1280 (yes I know, that is high). It may be higher but they only titrate this high.

I don't think that IVIG infusion once per month would INCREASE my ANA. My thought was that this brings down inflammation. Once before I had a very high ANA elisa and it was while not on IVIG. I think they are utterly unrelated. Frankly, I think more IVIG is indicated to bring this down.

All my specific tests are STILL negative, except for that high CD4+ T helper cell test, and that makes sense. A high ANA means inflammation and T helpers are the inflammers. (Gosh wasn't there a band named that....no, wait, it was the Proclaimers. "I would walk 500 miles and I would walk 500 more.....) You can see this inflammation is having brain effects.

Well, any professorial dissertations on what is going on with my immune system would be welcome. (Yes, I realize it is insane).

Other than IVIG, I am trying to get by with just Vicodin, which isn't doing it....clonazepam because this is making me darn nervous these days. Occassionally I use erythromycin, and I mean occassionally to make my stomach move. I just started some naprosyn after I had the ANA because for some reason it makes my joints feel better, but I spit up like a baby on it.....I tried prilosec to stop that but I get nightmares....(yes, weird I know). Oh, I have that bowel stuff....Miralax, Benefiber....and I have Restasis. I do not think any thing I am ingesting or injecting or in any other manner sticking into myself would cause my ANA to be high. Call me crazy, but I think I am sick and have autoimmune disease.....'of some type'.

My fingernail has whittled its way almost totally off and I have this hard white scale where a nail once was and the joint is swollen and hurts...most of my joints really hurt.

I can not get any one to look me in the eye when I bring up my old case of Lyme. They squrim when I ask about sarc. Anyway.....IVIG causing high ANA??? Any thoughts?? (I doubt it does that, but I am open to opinions)

[mrsD]

Two ideas for the fingernail....

1) yeast (candida)... may respond to liquid clotrimazole (Lotrimin) applied topically. You most likely would have to special order this at your pharmacy. They don't put it on the shelves anymore.
Twice a day --a few drops.
A swollen joint should be seen... could be some other infectious process IMO.

2) Psoriasis.... this would make the joint swell as well. But only one finger is odd... others would be typically affected.
My husband's grandfather had psoriasis of the nails... really icky looking!

The fact that you have only one affected, suggests a local problem, and not systemic. If many or all were affected that could be something else.

I smashed one finger with a rock last fall by accident working on the rock garden. Its nail is not doing well. I suspect it will not be normal much longer.
It has a long vertical indentation in it, and now it is splitting alot. It throbs sometimes in the night. There is a small lump above the cuticle, but otherwise it looks normal. It is the same finger my father smashed in a car door when I was young. Its never been normal looking...so I guess now it is dying too. It was broken at the first joint, then, and is a little deformed looking.

[Raglet]

hi there

I am not sure if IVIG is on the list of drugs that can cause a positive ANA, but there are definitely a lot of drugs that can. As ANA's double at each dilution, they become high very fast and are not reflective of disease severity or disease activity, they are just a marker that means that further testing has been done. My ANA tends to sit around 1.1280 - 1.2560. My disease activity is reflected by my anti-ds-dna's (I have lupus), and my ANA's stay the same not matter how sick or well I am at the time.

Have you seen a rheumatologist for an opinion? Otherwise, that could be a good thing to do so you could get further testing done.

the main thing is to remember that if your ANA is indicative of autoimmune disease, all it means is that you have a strong positive ANA, it doesn't mean that you are more (or less) ill than someone whose ANA is, for example, 1:360. Some rheumies do the ANA once, and if it is positive, never do it again as it doesn't reflect the clinical picture.

It makes sense to have full testing done - but ANA's are funny things and some people who don't have autoimmune disease have a positive ANA and as your doctor has already told you, various drugs can cause a positive ANA.

How long are you going to be on the IVIG ? If your ANA is drug induced, then it should disappear within a few months of stopping the infusions.

In your shoes I would get myself monitored by a good rheumie and see how things develop over time. Unfortunately, when labs are not conclusive, the diagnosis trail can be long. In lots of way I am very lucky as my blood work is classic for lupus (and SS and APS).

hth

raglet

[cyclelops]

thanks for the info.

I have a rheum. He is the one who found the high ANA...he said it could be higher, but they only dilute to 1,280. I have had 3 high ANAs, but nothing else is + except that my T cell count the CD4+ are high, as are lymphocytes. My biopsies that they have from all over do not look good.
+ Neuropathy, +myopathy, + for lymphocytic infiltration of minor salivary glands, + for Lyme back in 1994....now only Igenex is +, and docs won't accept that here. Lungs have reticular changes in the apices but pulmonologist thinks that is nothing, but she knows nothing of my other history....she is just looking at that piece of me. Lots of torn ligaments, bone issues, RLS, gastroparesis and esophageal problems, constipation, really sore rib cage, spinal pain, arthritis and arthropathies all over....oh it is such a bore. I don't even want to mention more. It is obviously some T helper cell over reaction which is likely autoimmune, but, it would be nice to not be sitting in that group of thousands that don't fit in the 'known' diseases with seropositivity. It is frustrating for the people and there are a lot of them who have this 'undifferentiated connective tissue disease'. Oh well, thanks for bearing with the rant. In a few weeks, the nail will be diagnosed....it has only been a year!!

They checked me out pretty well, so I think the high ANA is just that, and has nothing to do with IVIG. I saw a heme, and man, he drained me dry, and he got me to the pulm and the rheum. I have a regular neuro whom I like.

With my high immune stimulation, I would think that yeast is not too likely. Several derms looked at it. Had solutions like stick dental floss under the nail. Well, now the nail is gone. There is about a quarter inch left. I cut off the rest. Under that part of the nail is white, dry hard stuff. I see the same derm again in early May (the floss one). They will biopsy at that time....and I have a list of what I want looked at. Yes the joint is involved or at least the pressure from the nail thing is pushing on the joint.

I was just wondering if any one on IVIG ever heard of it boosting your ANA. I would assume it is just a coincidence, and that one has nothing to do with the other, and this is a random high ANA, which just backs up the fact that this is autoimmune.


Thanks.

[dahlek]

Running the gamut from sudden hepatitis to hemachromatosis! Usually about/within 4-15 days after my infusions [every 4 weeks] All dissapated after a couple of weeks tho. WHEW!
I Mention these as they were, I think linked to infusions/infusion responses and test timing. Not to mention stressors about a whole bunch of other med issues, as yet, unresolved. Know where you are coming from!
Curiously, I've not had a ANA test in ages! I think it mite be time for me to sort of have a serious ASK? NO? KICK ME PLEASE!
As for your results? All I can say is down right 'unusual'!
Not to mention scary to boot.
All I can suggest is to quiz the docs about any specifics and 'what can I do's' For the future tho, get copies of those test results and try to become a hematologist? Poke poke poke Let them know you aren't a doormat...tho I suspect they've gotten that impression by now.

Take a good look also at whatever IG brand you are using-web up the prescribing information..then feel free to pick their minds using the 800 phone #'s! I have found these #'s very useful at times...and they have access to the good stuff-you know what I mean! This is NOT a time to by shy! ASKING AND KNOWING are key to getting the best treatments that are available!
's - j

[cyclelops]

Hi J

The doc did not say it was due to the IVIG. He said, he wanted to check with the neuro giving it just to make sure. He seems to think it is just the typical very sky high ANA, due to my seronegative Sjogrens, altho, there is no such thing as seronegative Lyme.....if you get my drift. i was just wondering if any one had ever heard of this kind of thing happening...you know, that "one in a million normal reaction" to something. I think I have at least 5 one in a million, rarities. Darn, still can't win the lotto.

This is the 3rd high ANA, 2 of them have been off the chart. It doesn't really help define WHAT this is, only that it is inflammatory.

I would be highly doubtful that an elevated ANA would happen from IVIG. It is supposed to modulate the immune system. I expect what is causing the high ANA is also causing the high CD4+ T helper cells.

Hmm, so that must mean this PN is certainly inflammatory.

I think they should name this disease after me....the pulmonologist said that would be fine. She was having issues with finding Sarc in the scar tissue of my lungs.....not enough for a granuloma??? Let's see, that is the size of a grain of sand. Well maybe my fingernail will have better diggings than my lung....I don't want my lung dug around in anyway.

This new rheum I have concurred that he never saw a more impressively infiltrated minor salivary gland. There are too many lymphocytes to 'score' it.....basically it looks like more lymphocytes than salivary tissue.
Ah yes.

Life is confusing. But my new adorable 7 week old grand daughter is keeping me happy. I get my 'baby fix' when I get blue. My son and his wonderful wife indulge me to the max. I can cuddle and coo. Then when she poops I had her over.

[Raglet]

sjogrens also comes with additional symptoms like joint problems etc etc, so that could explain it all, plus the ANA. Has anyone suggested a lip biopsy ? I read someplace (but could never find it again) that the higher ANA's tend to be associated with Sjogrens, but who knows.

Sometimes, as frustrating as it is, all that can be done that is to follow a person over time and see what develops. Your symptoms certainly are suggestive of something autoimmune going on. The good news is that in terms of treatment it doesn't really matter if they come up with a dx or not, as these diseases are treated symptomatically so you can still receive all the treatment that you need even if you are undiagnosed. I have a cast iron dx, but am still treated symptomatically as that is really all that can be done.

cheers

raglet

[mrsD]

I found a really good set of pictures of typical nail medical problems....

http://hooked-on-nails.com/naildisorders.html

This link mentions that a T-cell process may underlie psoriasis.
http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/1107949-overview

My husband has moderate psoriasis and it cleared up with Dovonex and
Aquaphor. He does not have nail issues yet. But his grandfather had
terrible nails after his stroke. On all his fingers!

[cyclelops]

Thanks for the pics. At first it looked like oncholysis, like on the Dermznet site.....now it looks like the psoriasis one on this site you posted. The whole darn finger above the DIP joint hurts like $%^&. It hurts worse behind the finger in the palmer aspect, so this crud is somehow affecting the joint. Anyway, thanks for looking at it for me. I have 2 more weeks to wait for the derm deities to tell me it is yet another rare and benign condition. If you know what I mean.

Also to the prior poster to MRSD...yes, lip biopsy is very positive as were all the eye tests....as was a biopsy for neuropathy and myopathy, also lungs have reticular changes, flunked a ton of autonomic tests and have cardiac abnormalities. So it is not unexpected that the ANA would be high. It has been high before. The CD4 T helper cells and lymphocytes are also high. I am wondering if I need more IVIG? Or if they need to add something else, but what that I can tolerate....that is the question. It is Sjogrens without the blood marker....which is a disese, but, not my Lyme without the blood marker, that is a non-disease. Which makes me wonder where these doctors heads are when they come up with these blood marker ideas. Thanks for your thoughts. I know a lot of brain power has over the years gone into helping me solve my dilemma.

In the end, it appears that autoimmunity was the cause of my idiopathic small fiber neuropathy. I think even Glenntaj narrowed that down to autoimmune mimicry from the Lyme ( which could also be called sarcoidosos, neurosarcoidosis as easily).

Treatment is all pretty much the same.....I am sticking with IVIG, as it has done the most good, but it will be a fight. I do believe my dose needs some increasing but not at the risk of losing what I get. I may have to add some other T cell hammer that I can tolerate.

I am absolutely exhausted to the point I refuse to feel guilty for laying around and for even being bedbound here and there. I do have 'good' days. I am closing in on my next IVIG, so this may be my issue....that or I ate too many peeps.

[Hope15]

Pardon my ignorance here. My recent ANA test was negative, as was testing for Lupus and Lyme. Can someone explain what a negative ANA means? Does it cover specific autoimmune conditions? Thanks....