[Alffe]

Our local paper is filled with the deaths of an eye doctor, who shot his wife and then killed himself. They were indicted last week by a federal grand jury on suspicion of health care fraud, wire fraud and criminal conspiracy.

We are cautioned, by the experts, that suicide is not necessarily an admission of guilt.

"We don't know and you don't know and your readers don't know whether (the deaths) occurred because they were guilty and in effect didn't want to face the music, or because of what already is apparent, which is a tremendous loss of face and implication of guilt" says Lanny Berman, of American Association of Suicidology.

No statistical evidence has been assembled on people who commit suicide when accused of a crime, Berman said, but there have been cases of people who cannot tolerate losing a societal status.

It has everything to do with the psychological sense that they will no longer be viewed by others as having the respect and importance and value that they presumed they had prior to this public disclosure of potential wrongdoing."

And of course the paper is full of numbers to call for help in an emergency. Suicide always has such a high priority when it's sensationalized. ~sigh

I think the smartest thing I read was by a clinical social worker, Ruth Yarger, who said that what's most important is that people at risk understand that other choices exist. "When someone commits suicide, those left behind are often left looking for rationale they might not find. One of the reasons we don't understand is because we still think of options, but that person who is committing suicide does not see those options."

http://www.wsbt.com/

[Twinkletoes]

Oh my goodness -- that "can't stand the loss of societal status" sounds like it might be what happened here in Utah last week.

A doctor in a small town was accused (along with a dozen others) of taking pottery and artifacts from Indian ruins. Such a sad loss. If only he could have seen the "options."

[Alffe]

It surely sounds like it Twink and it is so sad.

We are still reeling from a very successful home builder taking his life 9 months ago when the bottom fell out of the market...couldn't face the embarassment of bankruptsy so he put a gas grill in his car and took his life. Obviously his reputation was more important than the young children and wife he left behind. Guess he couldn't see any "options" either. ~sigh

[mistiis]

Options, and hope!! I don't know why they seem to flit away for some of us. I don't know why we box ourselves in. And it seems selfish, but, it's not. It gets confusing. Reaching out is the hardest, and most important part of it all, I think. If only people can see even that much as an option. That is that when they can't see an option, maybe someone else can help them to see those options, and give them hope.

[DMACK]

Guilt by association can drive many over the edge, doing the crime or not:. is circumstantial...being linked to wrong doing is the killer..for so many..

David

[mistiis]

When I read your post David, I had this sudden realization about why people don't want to tell others when they feel suicidal. Your 'guilt by association' thought just hit me, as to why talking about suicide is sooooo hard for people who want to commit it.

This has probably been said here before, but, I had my AHA moment and thought I would share it. It helps to make it solid for me. We don't even want to say when we are feeling suicidal because it makes us feel guilty, afterall, it is wrong. It is illegal. It does go against everything life is about. Why would someone want to talk about something like that to others?? And, yet, it is sooooo very vital for the person who is in that space.

Gosh, if we could just remove that stigma!!!!!! If we could just get people to be more compassionate for those who suffer with those thoughts...hummmmm, just to remove that guilt that the thoughts are even there, and the desire to act upon them. And that, too, is some of the difference. There are those who will think about it but don't have the emotion in it to act on it. And then there are those of us who can get downright passionate about it, and will act on it.

People who don't have the emotion and passion in it, all they do is think about it, just don't get the ones who will carry it out. Okay, just thinking out loud here, because I know I can....

[Alffe]

http://www.geotimes.ge/index.php?newsid=17060

[Alffe]

since the above link no longer works, lets try this...

http://www.topix.net/science/psychol...to-think-about

[Alffe]

I'm waiting for a phone call from the mother of a 15 yr. old boy who killed himself. The family came home and found him hanging..he had been bullied at school. The boy's father is worried sick about his wife....feels that since it's been a year, she should be showing improvement. A mutual friend asked me to call him and when I did, he said, "I do not want to talk to you...I want my wife to talk to you".....and his voice quivered so it brought tears to my eyes. He said "I've captured your # and will give it to her."

Gee, he sounded like he was coping so well... I pray she calls me..still without a support group here.

[Lara]

I hope she calls you as well.
Difficult for you too though I'm sure, Alffe.
Thinking of you.



[p.s. both links work fine for me]