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Old 07-17-2016, 11:42 AM #1
Angels31 Angels31 is offline
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Hi,
I just thought I would update on what is happening with me. I am still battling this sinus issue. Although it feels a little better, these last two days seem to have gotten worse again. I have been to a total of 4 ENT's and two Oral surgeons now. The ENT's are saying my sinuses are beautiful, I do not have a sinus problem. All of them have said that. I have had 4 ct scans and 1 MRI. Both of the oral surgeons say there is no problem with the extractions. They are friends, so I am thinking that the new one didn't want to step on the other one's toes. He didn't do much of a check up. I am going to try to go to the original oral surgeon one more time. But my symptoms are still there, the site still hurts sometimes, I am still getting pieces of bone out, I am still getting the sour taste that seems to be coming from the site. They say the site is completely healed and it wouldn't be coming from there. Also, my post nasal on that side feels like there is stuff in it and I still have a crusty nose. (And they say there is not a sinus problem!) i also have constant ringing in my left ear.it really feels like there is still something wrong. It has been 8 months now. My plan is to go back to the original oral surgeon and if he doesn't find anything than I need to find the very best oral surgeon that is good at figuring out what is going on. I am willing to go anywhere in the country for that. Bryanna, do you know anyone that could help me? I know you have suggested that the doctors talk to each other but how could they talk to each other when they don't think anything is wrong. Also, I am worried about how much radiation I could be having. Would an MRI show more? Isn't that less dangerous? I am sure the ENT would order one for me. I am so tired of living like this. I really want to feel normal again.
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Old 07-17-2016, 05:29 PM #2
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Angels,

Please re read all of the posts you wrote on this forum along with my replies regarding your dental situation. There are some discrepancies which leads me to believe that it's possible you may not be asking questions of the doctors and dentists that you see.

In January you had a CT scan and you stated ... <<ENT thinks there may be root tip remnants. Oral surgeon says no.>>
Without question, this oral surgeon and that ENT need to collaborate on your case. The ENT will tell the surgeon of his CT findings, the surgeon will recheck the scan if for no reason other than to cover his own butt, they will discuss your symptoms and complaints, etc.

In May you saw a NEW ENT who acknowledged something is wrong. He also diagnosed you with Klebsiella Oxytoca in your sinus via specimen and culture. The other ENT missed this and in all probability it was not a new infection. It also clearly means you had/have a sinus infection. How did you get that? Likely from the infected teeth. It could also still be lingering if there is a piece of infected root or bone or some other irritant still present in that site. By any chance, did the ENT ever retest you after the antibiotics were done? If so, what were the results?

In June you stated << everyone says there is something in the sinus, maybe it's packing that was placed after the extraction>>
I replied to that statement asking what packing were they referring to. Did you ask them to elaborate on that? Can you understand that "packing" material is not something that should still be present months after a tooth extraction? Were they talking about bone graft material? These are questions that need answers.

Also in June you stated << dental don't see anything, ENT and radiologists do, yet the sinuses are fine>>

So my questions to you are ... Who sees what? How can the sinuses be fine if you still possibly have Klebsiella Oxytoca? What packing are they referring to? How can everything be fine if you still continue to have definitive symptoms of an infection and problems with not just the sinus but the jaw bone as well? Do you still have periodic swelling in your neck?

To be honest with you, at this point any new dentist you go to is going to be reluctant to take your case because given the history it's fairly clear that something is wrong and in all probability it's been wrong from the get go. Anyone new that intervenes with surgical treatment or other will be concerned that they are opening up a can of worms and they don't want to be the one blamed for anything. I know that sounds unfair but can you appreciate why they would be reluctant? Also, there is no logical reason to have had 4 CT scans in addition to an MRI. That is a lot of radiation and you should be mindful about subjecting yourself to anymore of it for several years unless due to an emergency situation. It takes years to clear yourself of radiation that has been accumulated over a short period of time. Your profession subjects you to an abnormal amount of radiation as it is, never mind repeated CT scans of your head. Please do not let anyone talk you into doing another scan.

I would recommend that you choose an oral surgeon, perhaps the original one, along with the ENT that stated something is wrong and diagnosed the Klebsiella and get them to collaborate. If the original oral surgeon is not willing to collaborate with the ENT, then I would recommend that you tell him you want a copy of his surgical report and all notes in your chart. He has to legally give you a copy of both of those. Take those papers to another oral surgeon and have that oral surgeon collaborate with the ENT.

Until you get the ENT who acknowledges a problem and an oral surgeon (irrelevant of his findings) to talk to each other, you are not going to get off this merry go round. It is up to you to get a collaboration going.

Bryanna





Quote:
Originally Posted by Angels31 View Post
Hi,
I just thought I would update on what is happening with me. I am still battling this sinus issue. Although it feels a little better, these last two days seem to have gotten worse again. I have been to a total of 4 ENT's and two Oral surgeons now. The ENT's are saying my sinuses are beautiful, I do not have a sinus problem. All of them have said that. I have had 4 ct scans and 1 MRI. Both of the oral surgeons say there is no problem with the extractions. They are friends, so I am thinking that the new one didn't want to step on the other one's toes. He didn't do much of a check up. I am going to try to go to the original oral surgeon one more time. But my symptoms are still there, the site still hurts sometimes, I am still getting pieces of bone out, I am still getting the sour taste that seems to be coming from the site. They say the site is completely healed and it wouldn't be coming from there. Also, my post nasal on that side feels like there is stuff in it and I still have a crusty nose. (And they say there is not a sinus problem!) i also have constant ringing in my left ear.it really feels like there is still something wrong. It has been 8 months now. My plan is to go back to the original oral surgeon and if he doesn't find anything than I need to find the very best oral surgeon that is good at figuring out what is going on. I am willing to go anywhere in the country for that. Bryanna, do you know anyone that could help me? I know you have suggested that the doctors talk to each other but how could they talk to each other when they don't think anything is wrong. Also, I am worried about how much radiation I could be having. Would an MRI show more? Isn't that less dangerous? I am sure the ENT would order one for me. I am so tired of living like this. I really want to feel normal again.
__________________
Bryanna

***I have been in the dental profession for 4 decades. I am an educator and Certified Dental Assistant extensively experienced in chair side assisting and dental radiography. The information that I provide here is my opinion based on my education and professional experience. It is not meant to be taken as medical advice.***

Last edited by Bryanna; 07-17-2016 at 10:03 PM.
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Old 07-17-2016, 10:02 PM #3
Angels31 Angels31 is offline
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Originally Posted by Bryanna View Post
Angels,

Please re read all of the posts you wrote on this forum along with my replies regarding your dental situation. There are some discrepancies which leads me to believe that it's possible you may not be asking questions of the doctors and dentists that you see.

In January you had a CT scan and you stated ... <<ENT thinks there may be root tip remnants. Oral surgeon says no.
Without question, these this oral surgeon and that ENT need to collaborate on your case.

In May you saw a NEW ENT who acknowledged something is wrong. He also diagnosed you with Klebsiella Oxytoca in your sinus via specimen and culture. The other ENT missed this as in all probability it was not a new infection and this clearly means you had/have a sinus infection. How did you get that? Likely from the infected teeth. It could also still be lingering if there is a piece of infected root or bone still present in that site. By any chance, did he ever retest you after the antibiotics were done? If so, what were the results?

In June you stated << everyone says there is something in the sinus, maybe it's packing that was placed after the extraction>> I replied to that statement asking what packing were they referring to. Did you ask them to elaborate on that? Can you understand that "packing" material is not something that should still be present months after a tooth extraction? Were they talking about bone graft material?

Also in June you stated << dental don't see anything, ENT and radiologists do, yet the sinuses are fine>>

So my questions to you are ... Who sees what? How can the sinuses be fine if you still possibly have Klebsiella Oxytoca? What packing are they referring to? How can everything be fine if you still continue to have definitive symptoms of an infection and problems with not just the sinus but the jaw bone as well? Do you still have periodic swelling in your neck?

To be honest with you, at this point any new dentist you go to is going to be reluctant to take your case because given the history it's fairly clear that something is wrong and in all probability it's been wrong from the get go. Anyone new that intervenes with surgical treatment or other will be concerned that they are opening up a can of worms and they don't want to be the one blamed for anything. Can you appreciate what I mean when I say that? Also, there is no logical reason to have had 4 CT scans in addition to an MRI. That is a lot of radiation and you should be mindful about subjecting yourself to anymore of it for several years unless due to an emergency situation. It takes years to clear yourself of radiation that has been accumulated over a short period of time. Your profession causes you an abnormal amount of radiation as it is, never mind repeated CT scans of your head. Please do not let anyone talk you into doing another scan.

I would recommend that you choose an oral surgeon, perhaps the original one, along with the ENT that stated something is wrong and diagnosed the Klebsiella and get them to collaborate. If the original oral surgeon is not willing to collaborate with the ENT, then I would recommend that you tell him you want a copy of his surgical report and all notes in your chart. He has to legally give you a copy of both of those. Take those those papers to another oral surgeon and have that oral surgeon collaborate with the ENT.

Until you get an ENT who acknowledges a a problem and an oral surgeon (irrelevant of his findings) to talk to each other, you are not going to get off this merry go round. It is up to you to get a collaboration going.

Bryanna

Hi Bryanna,
The packing they referred to was the bone graft. This ENT looked at my latest CT scan and said there were roots in my sinus. Then he asked if there was a bone graft and I said yes. He said that is what it is then, he is seeing the bone graft. . The latest test came out with a small amount of Klebsiella. I have been putting antibiotic cream in my nose for that. The ENT said it shouldn't be causing the problems I am having. My symptoms are still pointing to a problem where the teeth are extracted though. I KNOW that there is a problem there, I can feel it. But everyone keeps writing me off. How do they figure that out without scanning the area? That is why I asked about the MRI. It was the MRI that found the dental problem in tooth 15 not the CT scan. I haven't had an MRI since I had 15 removed and that is where I feel the problem.
Yes, I am still having a problem with my neck swelling on the left side and I have thick mucus that seems to originate from above the area where the teeth were removed.
I think that they are looking for sinus infection or sinus disease in the ct scans and I have neither.
So in answer to your question about who sees what is the oral surgeon sees nothing wrong and the ENT thought he saw roots in my sinus but now says it is the bone graft material.
I understand that I am a hard case, but something is really wrong. I am not crazy and I am not a baby. I can take a lot of pain. For many years I had cavities filled without novacane.
I am just so sick of being uncomfortable and have nobody listen to me. I am going to go back to the oral surgeon one last time. He does seem like a very egotistical guy, so I am sure he will say nothing is wrong. Then I will go see the ENT again, I am just not getting anywhere. I honestly don't know where to turn after that. Thanks for your help.
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Old 07-18-2016, 11:07 AM #4
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Angels,

Thanks for the clarification.

I completely believe you have an ongoing problem but your case did not have to become this difficult. I also believe if the ENT and the OS had collaborated at the onset, intervention by one or both would have taken place by now. Or the ENT, after speaking to the OS, may have referred you to another surgeon if he felt this guy was not willing to address the problem. Your symptoms, your complaints, are all frequently seen and heard with dental patients who had infected root canaled teeth extracted, especially in cases where there is sinus involvement. So this is NOT an unusual case for them ... it's just been poorly handled in my opinion.

Here's some things that could be contributing factors and if you put them together like a puzzle the situation may make more sense to you.....

1) You had a long term, chronic and active infection in your teeth that spread to the jaw bone, the ligaments, and the sinus. The infection had also become further systemic as indicated by your swollen glands.

2) **Re read this paragraph as you review the others**
Any debris left in the extraction sites, meaning pieces of tooth, infected and/or splintered bone, periodontal ligaments, root canal material, infection in the sinus, that was not removed at the time of the extraction surgery has continued to fester or at least kept the infection alive.

3) If I recall correctly you were prescribed Levaquin by the OS. This drug should only be prescribed very carefully and with caution. The FDA, of which I am not really a big fan of, has issued strict warnings on this drug to be administered with extreme caution. The potential side effects of Fluoroquinolone drugs are to be considered very seriously before prescribing this medication. In spite of taking this medication, you continued to have assorted symptoms of an infection along with swelling in the neck. So the risk of taking it may not have outweighed the benefits. I would urge you to use caution if you are prescribed a Fluoroquinolone drug again.

4) Then the ENT diagnoses a Klebsiella infection in the sinus. So how effective was the Levaquin and did the oral surgeon explore the sinus when he extracted the teeth?

5) Placing bone graft material in a site that still harbors infectious bacteria, whether it be from the "debris" that I mentioned or from a sinus infection, is not going to heal properly. The patient will continue to feel unwell, glands will swell, pain may be present, mucus may discharge from the mouth and/or the sinus, post nasal drip from the nose down the throat, sour or unpleasant taste, etc.

6) When bone graft material is placed in a clean and healthy site of the jaw bone, within a few months the graft material has integrated well enough with the healthy bone that it would not stand out on an xray or a scan as something that resembles a piece of tooth. When grafting does not integrate well with the jaw bone, it can give a radiograhic appearance of a tooth root or resemble a blob rather than bone. These are things that would be discussed between the ENT and the OS.

7) You have had enough scans to detect and diagnose the problem.

In my opinion, I think the oral surgeon figures when he goes in to do the implant he will explore and may debride the site at that time. Or he may not do either of those things and just place the implant and then prescribe more antibiotics. Unfortunately the later is often what is done in cases such as yours and the outcome is often unfavorable. Ideally the surgical site and the sinus should already be free of infection and all irritants "long" before the implant is placed.

Have you asked the ENT to discuss your case with the Oral Surgeon?

Bryanna



Quote:
Originally Posted by Angels31 View Post
Hi Bryanna,
The packing they referred to was the bone graft. This ENT looked at my latest CT scan and said there were roots in my sinus. Then he asked if there was a bone graft and I said yes. He said that is what it is then, he is seeing the bone graft. . The latest test came out with a small amount of Klebsiella. I have been putting antibiotic cream in my nose for that. The ENT said it shouldn't be causing the problems I am having. My symptoms are still pointing to a problem where the teeth are extracted though. I KNOW that there is a problem there, I can feel it. But everyone keeps writing me off. How do they figure that out without scanning the area? That is why I asked about the MRI. It was the MRI that found the dental problem in tooth 15 not the CT scan. I haven't had an MRI since I had 15 removed and that is where I feel the problem.
Yes, I am still having a problem with my neck swelling on the left side and I have thick mucus that seems to originate from above the area where the teeth were removed.
I think that they are looking for sinus infection or sinus disease in the ct scans and I have neither.
So in answer to your question about who sees what is the oral surgeon sees nothing wrong and the ENT thought he saw roots in my sinus but now says it is the bone graft material.
I understand that I am a hard case, but something is really wrong. I am not crazy and I am not a baby. I can take a lot of pain. For many years I had cavities filled without novacane.
I am just so sick of being uncomfortable and have nobody listen to me. I am going to go back to the oral surgeon one last time. He does seem like a very egotistical guy, so I am sure he will say nothing is wrong. Then I will go see the ENT again, I am just not getting anywhere. I honestly don't know where to turn after that. Thanks for your help.
__________________
Bryanna

***I have been in the dental profession for 4 decades. I am an educator and Certified Dental Assistant extensively experienced in chair side assisting and dental radiography. The information that I provide here is my opinion based on my education and professional experience. It is not meant to be taken as medical advice.***
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Old 07-29-2016, 11:36 AM #5
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Originally Posted by Bryanna View Post
Angels,

Thanks for the clarification.

I completely believe you have an ongoing problem but your case did not have to become this difficult. I also believe if the ENT and the OS had collaborated at the onset, intervention by one or both would have taken place by now. Or the ENT, after speaking to the OS, may have referred you to another surgeon if he felt this guy was not willing to address the problem. Your symptoms, your complaints, are all frequently seen and heard with dental patients who had infected root canaled teeth extracted, especially in cases where there is sinus involvement. So this is NOT an unusual case for them ... it's just been poorly handled in my opinion.

Here's some things that could be contributing factors and if you put them together like a puzzle the situation may make more sense to you.....

1) You had a long term, chronic and active infection in your teeth that spread to the jaw bone, the ligaments, and the sinus. The infection had also become further systemic as indicated by your swollen glands.

2) **Re read this paragraph as you review the others**
Any debris left in the extraction sites, meaning pieces of tooth, infected and/or splintered bone, periodontal ligaments, root canal material, infection in the sinus, that was not removed at the time of the extraction surgery has continued to fester or at least kept the infection alive.

3) If I recall correctly you were prescribed Levaquin by the OS. This drug should only be prescribed very carefully and with caution. The FDA, of which I am not really a big fan of, has issued strict warnings on this drug to be administered with extreme caution. The potential side effects of Fluoroquinolone drugs are to be considered very seriously before prescribing this medication. In spite of taking this medication, you continued to have assorted symptoms of an infection along with swelling in the neck. So the risk of taking it may not have outweighed the benefits. I would urge you to use caution if you are prescribed a Fluoroquinolone drug again.

4) Then the ENT diagnoses a Klebsiella infection in the sinus. So how effective was the Levaquin and did the oral surgeon explore the sinus when he extracted the teeth?

5) Placing bone graft material in a site that still harbors infectious bacteria, whether it be from the "debris" that I mentioned or from a sinus infection, is not going to heal properly. The patient will continue to feel unwell, glands will swell, pain may be present, mucus may discharge from the mouth and/or the sinus, post nasal drip from the nose down the throat, sour or unpleasant taste, etc.

6) When bone graft material is placed in a clean and healthy site of the jaw bone, within a few months the graft material has integrated well enough with the healthy bone that it would not stand out on an xray or a scan as something that resembles a piece of tooth. When grafting does not integrate well with the jaw bone, it can give a radiograhic appearance of a tooth root or resemble a blob rather than bone. These are things that would be discussed between the ENT and the OS.

7) You have had enough scans to detect and diagnose the problem.

In my opinion, I think the oral surgeon figures when he goes in to do the implant he will explore and may debride the site at that time. Or he may not do either of those things and just place the implant and then prescribe more antibiotics. Unfortunately the later is often what is done in cases such as yours and the outcome is often unfavorable. Ideally the surgical site and the sinus should already be free of infection and all irritants "long" before the implant is placed.

Have you asked the ENT to discuss your case with the Oral Surgeon?

Bryanna

Hi Bryanna,
I went to the oral surgeon on Monday. He did a CT Scan, panoramic and X-rays and could not find anything wrong. He says that if I don't do the implant now then I will have many other problems. I am losing bone and the opposing tooth is rising up. If I don't get it I will end up having to have a root canal on the opposing tooth. I am scheduled to get the implant later today because I didn't know what else to do. Meanwhile, I woke up today and am having all sorts of sinus issues on the left side. My left ear is constantly ringing and there is a lot of fluid on that side, not to mention the pain where the teeth were extracted. (Which the second oral surgeon called phantom pain) . I called the oral surgeon that gave me a second opinion because I remember him saying that he disagreed with the first oral surgeon that all sinus issues should be ok before I do it. I thought I could bring my new X-rays to him but he basically just blew me off. So the ENT says nothing is wrong and so does the oral surgeon. But, something is definitely not right to me and nobody will listen. I have been crying all morning because I am really sick of this and I am so frustrated that nobody can find anything. There is something wrong and nobody cares. My appointment is at 2:30 today he said that it won't affect my sinus one way or the other.
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Old 08-01-2016, 10:47 AM #6
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Hi Bryanna,
I went to the oral surgeon on Monday. He did a CT Scan, panoramic and X-rays and could not find anything wrong. He says that if I don't do the implant now then I will have many other problems. I am losing bone and the opposing tooth is rising up. If I don't get it I will end up having to have a root canal on the opposing tooth. I am scheduled to get the implant later today because I didn't know what else to do. Meanwhile, I woke up today and am having all sorts of sinus issues on the left side. My left ear is constantly ringing and there is a lot of fluid on that side, not to mention the pain where the teeth were extracted. (Which the second oral surgeon called phantom pain) . I called the oral surgeon that gave me a second opinion because I remember him saying that he disagreed with the first oral surgeon that all sinus issues should be ok before I do it. I thought I could bring my new X-rays to him but he basically just blew me off. So the ENT says nothing is wrong and so does the oral surgeon. But, something is definitely not right to me and nobody will listen. I have been crying all morning because I am really sick of this and I am so frustrated that nobody can find anything. There is something wrong and nobody cares. My appointment is at 2:30 today he said that it won't affect my sinus one way or the other.

Well it has definitely made my sinus problem worse. He showed me where it didn't affect my sinus and showed me on the X-rays where the implant was. I really don't know what to do now. My sinus and nose are really messed up and my left ear is ringing louder than ever. Can this be fixed? Can they take the implant out? I never should have let him talk me into it. He really scared me if I didn't do it. I should have listened to myself. Now I am going to look into going to the Mayo clinic. I really need to get to the bottom of this, I really can't live like this anymore. M
It looks as though the Mayo clinic in Minnesota also has a dental part. I know this is being caused by my teeth but unfortunately nobody in San Diego will listen.
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Old 08-01-2016, 04:10 PM #7
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Angels,

I am so sorry this is happening to you. But I am surprised that you returned to the original OS who kept ignoring your physical symptoms and allowed him to go ahead with the dental implant in spite of the long term symptoms you have been having. I don't, for the life of me, understand how he could have placed that implant if he was aware of your symptoms and dental history pertaining to that area of your mouth and sinuses. He has also bombarded you with radiation multiple times only to give you nothing more than the same inconclusive diagnosis. I think he would have had a different tone about your case if the ENT who acknowledged there was a problem had spoken to him about his findings on that scan.

To be completely honest with you... the situation has become even more complicated now since the placement of the implant. You will be hard pressed to find someone to take your case on because they won't want to get caught up in it. Due to the longevity of the problems and now this surgery, who ever is brave enough to step in to treat you will likely get blamed if the outcome of their treatment is not favorable. Not a good position to put themselves into. This is why the second oral surgeon who you contacted just before the placement of the implant was reluctant to get too involved.

I would suggest that you write a letter to the oral surgeon who did the extractions and now the implant requesting all of your scans and xrays, all surgical and consulting notes, and all chart notes. Everything pertaining to this area of your mouth from the very first time you walked in his office up until the last time. You will need this information wherever you end up going as the history of this is imperative and you should have copies for your own records as well. Send that letter certified mail receipt. This way you will receive a receipt from the post office that your letter was received and signed for so that no one can tell you it wasn't. The office may call you and tell you there is a fee to provide you with everything. You have a choice you can pay it or you can argue it. Either way, get your stuff from them.

Regarding the progression of the sinus problems. Your symptoms previous to the implant were indicative of infection and/or inflammation in the area ... bone, tissue, sinuses, etc. It is irrelevant as to whether the implant was placed into or near your sinuses or not. The implant is likely exacerbating the problem that has been present the whole time.

To answer your question about removing the implant ... yes it can be removed and it should be done sooner than later if that is what you decide to do. Meaning the longer it is present, the more difficult it will be to remove and the more progressive your ongoing problems will become. In addition to all of the other dental paperwork, it is imperative that you have the surgical report of the placement of the implant so that the surgeon who removes it knows what took place at the time of the placement. Meaning, what bone graft materials (if any) were used, what type and size the implant was, etc.

It is not that nobody in San Diego will listen. It is that your case became complicated early on and the doctors needed to collaborate. I know you are sick of hearing me say that, but that lack of collaboration is a huge part of what has led to this degree of complexity. The original oral surgeon had his opinion which seemed to disregard your ongoing physical symptoms and there was no one challenging him when there could have been. The fact that you kept going back to the original surgeon most likely led the others that you consulted to believe you wanted to stay with the original surgeon. Can you understand how this has evolved into you standing alone and almost at the mercy of the original oral surgeon?

I know you wanted to believe this guy and put your trust in him. Everyone wants that same thing with their doctors and dentists. Unfortunately, trust or competency is not something we can ever assume is going to take place, especially when problems arise and they're not taken seriously. He rushed you into doing the implant scaring you about bone loss and opposing tooth eruption. Perhaps he should have taken that energy and used it on figuring out what the hell has been going on all this time!

It is best if you can find an oral surgeon who is local to you because you may have complications that follow any treatment that is rendered to you. Can you call the ENT who confirmed he saw something on a scan and ask what oral surgeons he refers to you or what OS he has collaborated with on other cases? Tell him you had felt that he wanted to help you and you should have asked for this previously but still felt confident with the oral surgeon you were seeing. As time as gone on, you realize you need some collaboration and would like to work with someone that he is familiar with as you are not sure what to do at this point.

What do you think of the idea of contacting the ENT and so forth??

Bryanna




Quote:
Originally Posted by Angels31 View Post
Well it has definitely made my sinus problem worse. He showed me where it didn't affect my sinus and showed me on the X-rays where the implant was. I really don't know what to do now. My sinus and nose are really messed up and my left ear is ringing louder than ever. Can this be fixed? Can they take the implant out? I never should have let him talk me into it. He really scared me if I didn't do it. I should have listened to myself. Now I am going to look into going to the Mayo clinic. I really need to get to the bottom of this, I really can't live like this anymore. M
It looks as though the Mayo clinic in Minnesota also has a dental part. I know this is being caused by my teeth but unfortunately nobody in San Diego will listen.
__________________
Bryanna

***I have been in the dental profession for 4 decades. I am an educator and Certified Dental Assistant extensively experienced in chair side assisting and dental radiography. The information that I provide here is my opinion based on my education and professional experience. It is not meant to be taken as medical advice.***
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Old 08-04-2016, 02:33 PM #8
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Originally Posted by Bryanna View Post
Angels,

I am so sorry this is happening to you. But I am surprised that you returned to the original OS who kept ignoring your physical symptoms and allowed him to go ahead with the dental implant in spite of the long term symptoms you have been having. I don't, for the life of me, understand how he could have placed that implant if he was aware of your symptoms and dental history pertaining to that area of your mouth and sinuses. He has also bombarded you with radiation multiple times only to give you nothing more than the same inconclusive diagnosis. I think he would have had a different tone about your case if the ENT who acknowledged there was a problem had spoken to him about his findings on that scan.

To be completely honest with you... the situation has become even more complicated now since the placement of the implant. You will be hard pressed to find someone to take your case on because they won't want to get caught up in it. Due to the longevity of the problems and now this surgery, who ever is brave enough to step in to treat you will likely get blamed if the outcome of their treatment is not favorable. Not a good position to put themselves into. This is why the second oral surgeon who you contacted just before the placement of the implant was reluctant to get too involved.

I would suggest that you write a letter to the oral surgeon who did the extractions and now the implant requesting all of your scans and xrays, all surgical and consulting notes, and all chart notes. Everything pertaining to this area of your mouth from the very first time you walked in his office up until the last time. You will need this information wherever you end up going as the history of this is imperative and you should have copies for your own records as well. Send that letter certified mail receipt. This way you will receive a receipt from the post office that your letter was received and signed for so that no one can tell you it wasn't. The office may call you and tell you there is a fee to provide you with everything. You have a choice you can pay it or you can argue it. Either way, get your stuff from them.

Regarding the progression of the sinus problems. Your symptoms previous to the implant were indicative of infection and/or inflammation in the area ... bone, tissue, sinuses, etc. It is irrelevant as to whether the implant was placed into or near your sinuses or not. The implant is likely exacerbating the problem that has been present the whole time.

To answer your question about removing the implant ... yes it can be removed and it should be done sooner than later if that is what you decide to do. Meaning the longer it is present, the more difficult it will be to remove and the more progressive your ongoing problems will become. In addition to all of the other dental paperwork, it is imperative that you have the surgical report of the placement of the implant so that the surgeon who removes it knows what took place at the time of the placement. Meaning, what bone graft materials (if any) were used, what type and size the implant was, etc.

It is not that nobody in San Diego will listen. It is that your case became complicated early on and the doctors needed to collaborate. I know you are sick of hearing me say that, but that lack of collaboration is a huge part of what has led to this degree of complexity. The original oral surgeon had his opinion which seemed to disregard your ongoing physical symptoms and there was no one challenging him when there could have been. The fact that you kept going back to the original surgeon most likely led the others that you consulted to believe you wanted to stay with the original surgeon. Can you understand how this has evolved into you standing alone and almost at the mercy of the original oral surgeon?

I know you wanted to believe this guy and put your trust in him. Everyone wants that same thing with their doctors and dentists. Unfortunately, trust or competency is not something we can ever assume is going to take place, especially when problems arise and they're not taken seriously. He rushed you into doing the implant scaring you about bone loss and opposing tooth eruption. Perhaps he should have taken that energy and used it on figuring out what the hell has been going on all this time!

It is best if you can find an oral surgeon who is local to you because you may have complications that follow any treatment that is rendered to you. Can you call the ENT who confirmed he saw something on a scan and ask what oral surgeons he refers to you or what OS he has collaborated with on other cases? Tell him you had felt that he wanted to help you and you should have asked for this previously but still felt confident with the oral surgeon you were seeing. As time as gone on, you realize you need some collaboration and would like to work with someone that he is familiar with as you are not sure what to do at this point.

What do you think of the idea of contacting the ENT and so forth??

Bryanna
Hi Bryanna,
I am now in the process of contacting the ENT. We are playing phone tag, but my plan is to try and get in and have him order an MRI of the maxofacial. That seemed to catch the infection before that the CT scans didn't. Since the implant was done the whole left side of my face is messed up, from my eye all the way down my neck and shoulder. My left ear is ringing loudly also. I think I am having a lot of anxiety over this and I am trying to calm myself down. Especially when you say nobody would want to take my case on. Am I supposed to live my life with this? I know now that this whole time my problem has been my teeth. Since the implant the symptoms have really isolated to the left side. (Left side of hose plugged up, cheek and eye hurt on left side etc.) It almost feels like there is an infection in the jaw bone somewhere. Will that show up in an MRI? I am still getting the bitter taste coming from that area, which the oral surgeon say is not. He says that the area where the bone graft is, is all closed up,and it couldn't possibly be coming from there. Couldn't it seep through the skin? Because I know it is coming from there. I even think that even the bacteria in my nose was caused by this infection. The second Oral surgeon that I went to was referred to me by the ENT. So, I am not really sure what to do now. I did try to get the ENT and first oral surgeon to collaborate but they really didn't seem interested. I have a follow up appointment with the oral surgeon next week, should I have him take the implant out? I will get all the notes etc. He is on vacation this week.
I called my insurance company today and they sent me 12 names of maxofacial surgeons near me. Also, I need a plan if nobody finds anything after the next round of doctors. So, I am thinking of trying to get in to the Mayo Clinic in Minnesota. They are in network. My insurance company said they will try to get me an appointment. Luckily I fly for free and my best friend lives there. I really don't want to have to go that route but I really need to get to the bottom of this. Meanwhile, I am trying to live my life, uncomfortably, but if I stay busy I don't think about it as much. I have had Maui layovers the last three weeks and have done yoga on the beach and believe it or not, it helps! I am a very active and healthy person and I just pray every day that I can get this horrible thing resolved and feel good again!
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Old 08-05-2016, 02:08 PM #9
Cleo Cleo is offline
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There is a dentist in San Francisco named Ed Zinman who is also a lawyer who may be able to help you figure out what to do. Good luck!
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Old 08-05-2016, 04:53 PM #10
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Cleo,

Just curious, how do you know about this dentist/attorney? They are very hard to find because it is an unusual combination of degrees.

Thanks, Bryanna



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Originally Posted by Cleo View Post
There is a dentist in San Francisco named Ed Zinman who is also a lawyer who may be able to help you figure out what to do. Good luck!
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***I have been in the dental profession for 4 decades. I am an educator and Certified Dental Assistant extensively experienced in chair side assisting and dental radiography. The information that I provide here is my opinion based on my education and professional experience. It is not meant to be taken as medical advice.***
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