Thanks Beatle. Yes the kidneys are showing some stress. I am off all meds. at this point other than blood pressure. I am going to have to do something for pain and the PN. This is crazy, can't take the meds. and there seems to be no option. Maybe I could handle the pain if it were just in one place, but it isn't. It is in many of my joints. Having a regular hissy fit right now and plan to soak in the tub and sulk. Glad I have you and doc and this gang on NT to vent to. Jamaica sounds real good about now. ginnie