good , spot on stuff, Wide O. My back is a mess, a real mess. I have looked into that too, and find more questions than answers. I think 'co-morbidity' is probably a big part of it for some of us, as you say.

And it's interesting, there are some studies that show people can learn to drink "rationally" just as they learned to drink "irrationally." I checked this out quite a bit, and the work is done by legit researchers. I have had success with it (you limit yourself to an ounce an hour, or a beer, glass of wine, etc, you change, with training , how you think about drinking, and so on.) but I have had much more failure with it, and I suspect this is true for most people. I read a book once called Sober For Good , I think, and this topic was covered in some detail, and the authors conclusion was that in the real world, very few people succeed in returning to rational drinking, and besides, if its that much work, who wants to?? not me, it is just not worth it. I can do if for a night or 2, but not much more.