[QUOTE=Bryanna;1097912]Hi JML22,

Okay, thanks for answering my questions Your case is what I assumed it to be. I will re-post your replies and answer you in bold type... it's just easier to follow that way. They I will offer you my professional opinion based on 36+ yrs in dentistry as a chair side surgical assistant.

<< Just about everything but gum surgery, cleanings 4x a year, root scalings/planings,>>

ROOT PLANINGS AND GINIGIVAL CURETTAGE ARE BENEFICIAL WHEN THE DISEASE IS LIGHT TO MODERATE. HOWEVER, THERE IS NO LONG TERM BENEFIT WHEN THIS PROCEDURE HAS NOT BROUGHT THE DISEASE UNDER CONTROL. THIS TREATMENT ALWAYS NEEDS TO BE FOLLOWED UP WITH A LIFE TIME OF EXCEPTIONALLY EXCELLENT ORAL HOME CARE, FREQUENT DENTAL CLEANINGS AND A WHOLE FOODS NUTRITIONAL DIET. INGS WITHOUT THOSE THINGS THIS PROCEDURE WILL NOT BE ADEQUATE ENOUGH TO BRING THE PERIO DISEASE UNDER CONTROL. MANY TIMES A DENTIST WILL RECOMMEND REPEATING THE ROOT PLANING AND CURETTAGE PROCEDURE IN ANOTHER ATTEMPT TO ERADICATE THE VISIBLE BACTERIA AND STIMULATE THE IMMUNE SYSTEM TO BRING RELIEF AND HEALING TO THE AREAS. HOWEVER, NOT ONLY IS THE ESSENTIAL BENEFICIAL TOOLS LIKE HOME CARE AND DIET STILL MISSING BUT WITH EACH RP AND GC PROCEDURE, THE TEETH AND BONE BECOME MORE TRAUMATIZED OFTEN RESULTING IN IRREVERSIBLE NERVE DAMAGE RESULTING IN FURTHER INFECTION.

All the cleanings I've undergone could have very well worsened the infection. I've also been diagnosed with osteoporosis so I'm sure this has impacted the problem as well. The 2 implants I previously had lasted for about 8-9 years before failing but it seems my situation did become worse after having the root canals. As far as the bone loss, I'm told I still have fairly good bone in width but not in depth, if that makes sense.

<<antibiotics, mostly done by general dentist and hygienist. Am considering lasar gum surgery at this juncture.>>

ANTIBIOTICS, FREQUENT DENTAL CLEANINGS AND EVEN GUM LASER SURGERY CALLED LANAP AS WELL AS RP AND GC ARE NOT THE CURE ALL FOR PERIODONTAL DISEASE. IN FACT THEY ARE A WASTE OF MONEY AND TIME, AND CAN SPREAD THE INFECTION VIA THE BLOOD STREAM IF THE ESSENTIAL COMPONENTS OF CONSISTENT EXCELLENT ORAL HOME CARE AND NUTRITION ARE MISSING.

Okay, so when extracting these teeth taking the antibiotics will be fruitless? I'm just wondering if not taking them can cause the infection to spread further. I've done the home care as best I could with flossing, etc., and I've recently started oil pulling as well.

PERIODONTAL DISEASE IS THE RESULT OF BACTERIA THAT COLLECTS AND MULTIPLIES WHICH CAUSES A VERY STICKY BIOFILM CALLED PLAQUE. THE PLAQUE IS THE MAIN CULPRIT PERIO DISEASE AND WILL CONTINUE TO BE THE CULPRIT OF THE INFECTION WHEN IT IS NOT ADEQUATELY REMOVED ON A DAILY BASIS. IN EVERY PERSON WITH PERIODONTAL DISEASE, THE IMMUNE SYSTEM TRIES TO DEAL WITH THIS CHRONIC INFECTION AND INFLAMMATION BUT EVENTUALLY IT BECOMES OVERWHELMED AND NO LONGER FIGHTS IT. AS THIS IS OCCURRING, THE BODY STARTS TO BREAK DOWN AND SYMPTOMS OF ILL HEALTH BECOME MORE OBVIOUS. FATIGUE IS ONE OF THE SYMPTOMS THAT THE IMMUNE SYSTEM IS WORKING TOO HARD FOR TOO LONG A PERIOD OF TIME.

<< 3) Yes, but have seen some improvement. I've been exploring and trying other treatments such as essential oils, herbs, different supplements, natural antibiotics, etc.>>

BLEEDING OF THE GUMS EVEN JUST A LITTLE INDICATE BACTERIA/PLAQUE AND/OR INFECTION IS PRESENT. HEALTHY GUMS DO NOT BLEED AT ALL UNLESS THEY ARE INJURED OR YOU ARE TAKING SPECIFIC MEDICATIONS LIKE ANTI SEIZURE OR BLOOD THINNER MEDS OR BIRTH CONTROL PILLS ALL OF WHICH HAVE A SIDE EFFECT OF BLEEDING GUMS. EVEN IN THOSE CASES, IF THE BLEEDING IS NOT MINIMAL THERE IS A BUILD UP OF PLAQUE.

YOU MAY NOTICE THAT SOME TEETH FEEL A BIT TIGHTER THAN THEY DID SAY A YEAR AGO. THIS COULD SIMPLY MEAN THAT A LOT OF GUM RECESSION HAS OCCURRED AND THE TEETH ARE ANCHORED IN THE BONE BY A VERY SMALL MARGIN OF BONE. THIS WOULD BE EVIDENT IF YOUR TEETH SEEM TO LOOK LONGER THAN NORMAL.

I AM A STRONG PROPONENT OF HOLISTIC METHODS PERTAINING TO DENTAL AND MEDICAL HEALTH. IN FACT I FOLLOW A STRICT HOLISTIC AND HEALTHY LIFESTYLE. SO I AM ALL ABOARD THAT TRAIN OF THOUGHT. HOWEVER, I CANNOT STRESS ENOUGH THAT THE CULPRIT TO THE PERIODONTAL DISEASE IS AND HAS BEEN THE BUILD UP OF PLAQUE. SO NO AMOUNT OF ESSENTIAL OILS, HERBS, HOMEOPATHY, ORGANIC ANTIBIOTICS, OR NUTRICEUTICALS WILL BE BENEFICIAL TO YOU FOR ANY LONG TERM AS LONG AS THE PERIO DISEASE IS PRESENT AND PROGRESSING.

I see what you mean but aren't the oils, herbs and natural antibiotics killing some of the bacteria? I would think that has to make some kind of difference, at least I hope it does!

<<I have 1 other root canal that seems to be okay.>>

ALL ROOT CANALED TEETH ARE CHRONICALLY INFECTION... WITH OR WITHOUT SYMPTOMS... WITH OR WITHOUT RADIOGRAPHIC PATHOLOGY. THE ANATOMY OF OUR TEETH AND HOW THEY CONNECT TO OUR VASCULAR SYSTEM DOES NOT ALLOW A DISEASED TOOTH TO BECOME HEALTHY AGAIN. THEREFORE THE BACTERIA THAT RESIDES IN OUR MOUTH ALSO RESIDES IN OUR BLOOD STREAM. THIS RC TOOTH IS ADDING TO THE TOXICITY BURDEN OF YOUR PERIODONTAL DISEASE... IT IS ONE OF THE CULPRITS THAT IS ALLOWING IT TO THRIVE.

<<As far as my health being effected, I know what you're saying since I haven't felt really good in a very long time. Some days are better then others but my energy level is quite low and most of the time I have to push myself to just get through a days work.>>

OUR BODY'S ARE DESIGNED TO WITHSTAND A LOT. PERHAPS TOO MUCH WHICH ALLOWS US TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF IT. WHEN WE HAVE CHRONIC PHYSICAL SYMPTOMS THIS INDICATES THAT DISEASE OR INFECTION HAS BEEN BREWING FOR QUITE SOME TIME. WE CAN ONLY PUT BANDADES ON THESE SYMPTOMS FOR SO LONG BEFORE NEW SYMPTOMS OCCUR. ABNORMAL FATIGUE IS A DEFINITIVE SIGN THAT THE IMMUNE SYSTEM HAS BEEN WORKING TOO HARD AND IT'S OVERWHELMED.

Yes, my liver levels have been high too but I started taking milk thistle and some other things to help and they went back to normal. Am planning to do some labs again soon to see what's going on now since it's been awhile.

<< I know how important diet is and have made major changes there as well. >>

HEALTHY CHANGES TO YOUR DIET ARE IMPERATIVE. HOWEVER DON'T ASSUME THAT PROCESSED OR REFINED FOODS ARE HEALTHY JUST BECAUSE THEY ARE MARKETED AS "NATURAL" OR "LOW FAT" OR "LOW SUGAR". AS THE INGREDIENTS IN MOST PROCESSED AND ALL REFINED FOODS ARE SIMPLY CHEMICALS, ARTIFICIAL INGREDIENTS, PRESERVATIVES, PESTICIDES AND DYES. NOT REAL FOOD AT ALL.

Oh no, I've done much research on nutrition over the years and know very well the detriment of processed/refined foods. I primarily eat organic and agree wholeheartedly with Hippocrates who said "let food be your medicine." I sometimes fall short though and do indulge in some sweets now and then but I usually feel it pretty quickly and notice my gums do bother me more as well. The darn bacteria just loveeee their sugar, grrrrr.

<<I've looked at doing the "all on four" but don't have $26K to dish out all at once so am trying to do the best I can to hold onto the few bottom teeth I have left that are okay and work from there. >>

THE ALL ON FOUR IS AN AWESOME DENTAL IMPLANT OPTION FOR PEOPLE WHO HAVE NO PERIODONTAL DISEASE AND GOOD HEALTHY BONE STRUCTURE. IT IS A RISKY SURGERY AND TREATMENT OPTION FOR ANYONE WHO HAS PERIO AND UNHEALTHY BONE. UNFORTUNATELY MANY DENTISTS ARE NOT THAT FORTHRIGHT IN OFFERING THE PATIENT THAT INFORMATION.

Can you specifically define "unhealthy and risky"? I've had 3 or 4 dentists recommend this option. The thought of a full lower denture scares the heck out of me due to all the horror stories I've read about the lack of comfort.

<<I know my options are quite limited at this point but am hoping once the infected root canal tooth is removed maybe things can finally start to get much better.>>

I AGREE YOUR OPTIONS ARE LIMITED DUE TO THE EXTENT OF YOUR PERIO DISEASE, BONE LOSS AND THE LONGEVITY OF THE PROBLEM. I WISH I COULD TELL YOU THAT REMOVING THIS ONE TOOTH WOULD BE THE KEY TO RESTORING YOUR DENTAL HEALTH. HOWEVER, IT MAY BE WISE TO RE EVALUATE YOUR DESIRE TO HANG ON TO THE REMAINING TEETH AS THEY MAY BE IN JEOPARDY ALSO AND CONTRIBUTING TO YOUR PERIO DISEASE MORE THAN YOU REALIZE. I SAY THIS BECAUSE THE MORE BONE YOU LOSE, THE MORE DIFFICULT IT WILL BE TO FIT YOU FOR A FULL DENTURE IN THE FUTURE. IF YOU ARE SEEKING TO BE HEALTHIER, THEN THAT TOO IS A REASON TO RE EVALUATE YOUR SITUATION.

What are your thoughts on bone grafting? It definitely helped when I had to extract my top tooth that had the fractured root. On that tooth the gum had receded badly. It wasn't done with bovine material however so I'm wondering if bovine is a good or perhaps better option?

I have most likely given you much more information than you thought I would or that you hoped I would :/ My purpose for being here and for consulting people on their dental health is to offer truthful, helpful information that more than likely is not being offered by the dentist. I believe there is a strong correlation between our oral and systemic health and that is why I share this information with others.

I sincerely appreciate your honesty, Bryanna, even if it's not the most comforting thing to hear - wouldn't want it any other way.

I know this is a very crucial juncture for me and that the decisions I make now will undoubtedly impact my health majorly both now and in the future so this is why I'm attempting to seek as much info as possible before proceeding further.

Two last questions...should I make sure my dentist is willing to remove the perio ligament? How crucial is that, really, and what can happen if it's left in there? Also, is doing the bone grafting at the same time as an extraction pretty typical?

Thank you so much for all your help and input! I certainly value a completely unbiased and objective opinion.