Hi Vowel Lady,

I am going to re post your thread in sections and reply in bold type. Please hear me out on what I am going to tell you as I will try to explain this the best that I can.

<<It really haunts me that I went to that original dental office with no pain at all and ended up losing a tooth and in permanent pain.>>

THE TOOTH IN QUESTION HERE WAS NOT A VIRGIN TOOTH, IT HAD A RESTORATION IN IT. CORRECT? WHICH MEANS THIS TOOTH HAD ALREADY AT SOME POINT BEEN DRILLED INTO. WHICH MEANS THE NERVES INSIDE THE TOOTH HAD ALREADY BEEN TRAUMATIZED AT THE TIME THE THAT RESTORATION WAS DONE. PLEASE CLARIFY THE ORIGINAL RESTORATION ON THIS TOOTH AS I AM RECALLING IT WAS AN ONLAY OR LARGE FILLING...?

DENTAL PAIN IS OFTEN NON EXISTENT WHEN A TOOTH IS IN TROUBLE. WHY? BECAUSE TEETH ARE INTRICATELY CONNECTED TO OUR VASCULAR AND LYMPHATIC SYSTEMS. SO WHEN BAD BACTERIA IS BREWING IN A LIVE OR NON VITAL TOOTH, THERE ARE SEVERAL PATHS FOR THAT BACTERIA TO TRAVEL TO ALLOWING A TEMPORARY REDUCTION IN INFLAMMATION. KEEP IN MIND THAT THE TRAVEL OF THIS BACTERIA IS WHAT CAUSES THE MOST LONG TERM OR PERMANENT PROBLEMS TO OCCUR AND IT CAN BE DIFFICULT TO KNOW HOW FAR IT HAS TRAVELED. THIS IS WHY I REPETITIVELY WARN PEOPLE ABOUT RETAINING INFECTED AND NON VITAL TEETH.

WHEN THAT TRAVELED PATH BECOMES BLOCKED, THE BACTERIA TRIES TO FIND ANOTHER PATH AND SO ON. THIS IS WHY SOME PEOPLE CAN GO ON FOR YEARS THINKING THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THEIR TOOTH WHEN IT'S REALLY BEEN BREWING A LONG TIME. EVENTUALLY THE INFLAMMATION CAN NO LONGER BE CONTAINED, THE IMMUNE SYSTEM SAYS ENOUGH OF THIS NONSENSE ....... AND THIS IS WHEN ALL OF A SUDDEN, THERE IS PAIN, MAYBE SWELLING, MAYBE EVEN PHYSICAL SYMPTOMS OF ILL HEALTH. EACH PERSON HAS A DIFFERENT PATH OF RESISTANCE TO INFECTION SO WHAT MAY OCCUR IN A WEEK OR MONTH, MIGHT TAKE A YEAR OR MORE IN SOMEONE ELSE.

AT THE SAME TOKEN...........
ANYTIME A TOOTH IS DRILLED INTO THERE IS TRAUMA THAT THE TOOTH NEEDS TO RECOVER FROM. WITH EACH ADDITIONAL DRILLING, THERE IS AN ELEVATED RISK OF PERMANENTLY INJURING THE NERVES IN THAT TOOTH. THE MAGNITUDE OF THE RPM'S OF A HIGH SPEED DRILL ALWAYS TRAUMATIZE THE NERVES. THE DEEPER THE DRILLING THE MORE TRAUMA. DOES THIS MEAN THE TRAUMA IS PERMANENT? NOT NECESSARILY, BUT THERE IS ALWAYS THAT CHANCE. THE TOOTH REALLY HAS TO GO THROUGH A LOT TO RECOVER FROM THE TRAUMA. SO IMAGINE A TOOTH ALREADY BEING COMPROMISED AND THEN BEING DRILLED INTO FOR A 2ND OR 3RD TIME.

ON THE OTHER END OF THE SPECTRUM............
A DENTIST COULD DRILL TOO FAR AND TOO DEEP PERMANENTLY INJURING A TOOTH. THIS CAN EASILY OCCUR WHEN THE DECAY IS DEEP AND/OR THERE WAS DECAY UNDERNEATH A PREVIOUS RESTORATION AND/OR A PORTION OF THE TOOTH HAD BROKEN OFF. WHEN THE TOOTH NEEDS TO BE SEVERELY REDUCED SAY FOR A LARGE FILLING, OR AN ONLAY OR A CROWN THE RISK OF INJURY TO THE TOOTH IS INCREASED.

IT IS NOT IDEAL TO REMOVE THE PROTECTIVE BLANKET OF THE TOOTH CALLED THE ENAMEL. BUT IT IS NECESSARY TO REMOVE IT FOR ALL RESTORATIONS. THE MORE THAT IS REMOVED, THE MORE COMPROMISED THE TOOTH BECOMES AND THE MORE VULNERABLE THE TOOTH IS TO IRREVERSIBLE NERVE DAMAGE.

<<After extensive tries and a crazy amount of filing, the first dentist there put on a crown using permanent cement that broke immediately. I had some discomfort, but the second dentist there, then put in a post in what you termed a "vital" tooth. This was not a rc tooth. The pain became insane afterwards and has never gotten better.>>

OKAY, SO YOU HAVE A TOOTH THAT ALREADY HAD A RESTORATION ON IT. NOW YOU HAVE A LOT OF DRILLING AND WHAT NOT DONE TO THIS TOOTH TO TRY AND RESTORE IT.
REGARDING THE POST.... IF I REMEMBER CORRECTLY, YOU SAID THIS TOOTH WAS NOT ROOT CANALED BUT THE DENTIST PUT A POST IN IT. AND I SAID YOU CANNOT PLACE A POST IN A LIVE TOOTH. I STILL STAND BY THAT STATEMENT. IF A POST HAD BEEN PLACED IN A LIVE TOOTH... YOU WOULD HAVE BEEN IN EXTREME, EXCRUCIATING, UNBEARABLE PAIN. BASED ON YOUR DESCRIPTION, I THINK WHAT WAS PLACED IN THE TOOTH WAS A PIN NOT A POST. TWO DIFFERENT THINGS. PINS WERE OFTEN USED IN DENTISTRY 20 PLUS YEARS AGO. THEY ARE SELDOM USED SINCE THEN BECAUSE THEY TEND TO CAUSE IRRITATION IN THE LOCATION THEY ARE PLACED AND THERE ARE OTHER MEANS OF RESTORING A TOOTH WITHOUT USING PINS. HOWEVER, THEY ARE NOT ILLEGAL... JUST STUPID TO USE... IMO.

AN XRAY OF THAT TOOTH DURING THIS RESTORATION PROCESS WOULD SHOW THE "PIN" THAT WAS USED.

<<I have not sued. I spent the next two years seeking medical advice from doctors, oral surgeons, neuros. >>

I AM FAIRLY WELL VERSED ON DENTAL LAW SUITS AS I HAVE KNOWN THE INTRICACIES OF SEVERAL OF THEM OVER THE LAST 3 DECADES. THIS IS A WHOLE DIFFERENT SUBJECT BUT TYPICALLY, LAWSUITS AGAINST DENTISTS RESULT IN A LONG DRAWN OUT PROCESS AND UNFORTUNATELY NOT USUALLY FAVORABLE FOR THE PLAINTIFF. THERE ARE SO MANY COMPLICATED VARIABLES TO DENTAL TREATMENT THAT THE PLAINTIFF USUALLY RUNS OUT OF AMMO AND THE MOST THAT HAPPENS TO THE DEFENDANT IS A FINE OR SLAP ON THE WRIST. AS A PLAINTIFF, YOU WOULD HAVE THE BURDEN OF DELIVERING UNDENIABLE AND DEFINITIVE PROOF THAT HARM WAS CAUSED TO YOU AT THE TIME OF THE PREPARATION FOR THE CROWN THAT RESULTED IN LONG TERM SUFFERING. BECAUSE THE TOOTH WAS PREVIOUSLY RESTORED, YOU HAVE LESS OF A LEG TO STAND ON FOR THE REASONS THAT I MENTIONED ABOVE. ALSO, BELIEVE IT OR NOT..... BECAUSE THE ADJACENT TOOTH IS ROOT CANALED THE "AREA" SURROUNDING THE PROBLEM WOULD BE RULED AS COMPROMISED.... MEANING...YOU HAVE NO WAY TO PROVE FOR CERTAIN THAT THE RC TOOTH IS NOT CAUSING THE LONG TERM PROBLEM.

<<One of my most helpful meds seems to be Gabapentin. ALL my doctors think I have nerve damage caused by dental work, likely by the first two dentists.>>

IF I HAD A NICKEL FOR EVERY TIME I KNEW OF A PATIENT WHO WAS TOLD BY THEIR DRS AND NEURO DR THEY LIKELY HAVE THEIR PROBLEM FROM DENTAL WORK.. I WOULD BE A MILLIONAIRE. THIS IS NOT TO SAY THAT DENTAL WORK DOES NOT CAUSE OR CONTRIBUTE TO NEUROLOGICAL PROBLEMS. AS I BELIEVE WHOLEHEARTEDLY THAT ROOT CANALED TEETH DO CAUSE OR CONTRIBUTE TO NEUROLOGICAL PROBLEMS. HOWEVER, NONE OF THESE DRS ARE EVER WILLING TO GO UP AGAINST THE DENTIST OR HIS LAWYERS IN A DENTAL LAW SUIT AS THEY CANNOT DEFINITIVELY PROVE THEIR DIAGNOSIS WHEN THERE ARE OTHER TEETH IN THE SAME AREA THAT ARE COMPROMISED EITHER WITH LARGE FILLINGS, CROWNS OR ROOT CANALS.

<<I feel STRONGLY that those first two dentists messed up.>>

I KNOW YOU DO AND I CAN UNDERSTAND WHY YOU WOULD FEEL THAT WAY. ESPECIALLY SINCE THEIR PREPARATION OF THE TOOTH SEEMED SO REDUNDANT AND INEFFECTIVE. IT IS VERY POSSIBLE THEY MESSED UP BUT FOR IT TO BE THE CAUSE OF YOUR LONG TERM PAIN.... YOU REALLY DON'T KNOW THAT FOR CERTAIN.

<<The constant drilling and tapping attempting to put on a crown, the use of permanent cement and the crown breaking immediately and then the very long procedure the remove the broken crown...then shortly afterward...putting in a post in a vital tooth that adjust went through constant crazy drilling and tapping. They, hurt me.>>

THIS IS NOT UNUSUAL DENTISTRY. I KNOW YIKES!!!! IN MY OPINION IT'S NOT GOOD DENTISTRY, BUT IT IS NOT UNUSUAL.

<<I am haunted that this group of bad dentists got away with this. My medical bills are outrageous. My pain is outrageous. I personally believe strongly that the rc tooth next to all of this is a secondary issue.>>

I KNOW HOW HORRIBLE YOU FEEL ABOUT THIS. UNFORTUNATELY THERE ARE A LOT OF NOT SO GOOD DENTISTS... AND BELIEVE ME, IT BREAKS MY HEART TO WITNESS THIS NONSENSE. BASED ON MY EXTENSIVE DENTAL EXPERIENCE, I CANNOT AGREE WITH YOU THAT YOUR RC TOOTH IS A SECONDARY PROBLEM. I CAN UNDERSTAND WHY YOU WOULD FEEL THAT WAY AS YOU HAVE NO DENTAL KNOWLEDGE OTHER THAN WHAT YOU HAVE BEEN TOLD BY YOUR DENTISTS AND YOUR DOCTORS.

<<You can't run from the facts....no pain, then very bad dental work, then damage and permanent pain.>>

TRUE, YOU CANNOT RUN FROM "ALL" THE FACTS WHICH ALL PLAY A ROLE IN THE DEMISE OF THAT TOOTH.

<<Please pause for a moment and think about the poor dental work I received and only that.>>

I HAVE THOUGHT AND RETHOUGHT AGAIN AND AGAIN YOUR WRITINGS HERE. I TOO WANT TO BLAME YOUR VERY LESS THAN IDEAL DENTISTRY FOR YOUR NEUROLOGICAL ISSUES... BUT IN GOOD CONSCIENCE, I CANNOT DO THAT BECAUSE I HAVE NO DOUBT THAT THE RC TOOTH IS PLAYING A ROLE IN ALL OF THIS.

<<How can I see to it that these dentists are sanctioned for their horrible dental work? What are the proper procedures????>>

UNFORTUNATELY, YOU REALLY CANNOT DO ANYTHING AGAINST THEM AS YOU DO NOT HAVE DEFINITIVE PROOF, AS I MENTIONED ABOVE, THAT WHAT THEY DID CAUSED YOU TO HAVE PERMANENT LONG TERM PROBLEMS.

<<It haunts me that they might hurt others>>

VOWEL LADY, PLEASE DO NOT LET THAT HAUNT YOU. I TOO AM VERY BOTHERED BY WHAT I HAVE AND CONTINUE TO WITNESS IN DENTISTRY. THERE ARE SO MANY UNSKILLED DENTISTS AND BECAUSE THEY'RE LEVEL OF SKILL IS NEVER TESTED THROUGHOUT THEIR CAREER AND BECAUSE THEY AVOID GOING AGAINST THEIR PEERS WHEN THE OBVIOUS IS SEEN..... THERE IS NO RECOURSE FOR YOU TO TAKE TO "STOP" THEM.

I am so sorry that you are going through this... I cannot tell you how my profession has disgusted me on so many levels. I've stayed in dentistry all of these years because I care about the patient much more so than pleasing my employer. I wish I could help you find the exact resolution. But all I can do is offer you the information that is not being offered by your dentists and hope that you understand my offering is only with good intentions.

Bryanna