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Old 03-19-2015, 05:04 PM
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Bryanna Bryanna is offline
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 4,624
15 yr Member
Bryanna Bryanna is offline
Grand Magnate
Bryanna's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 4,624
15 yr Member
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Hi Laughter,

I've been known to cluck a time or two.... ~:>
I always take fear and apprehension seriously whether it be coming from myself or someone else! I think kindness and competency of those in charge of the situation go a long way with us <<chickens>>

Your question about osteomyelitis.... When an infected tooth is extracted there is no guarantee that the bone will be completely healthy once it has healed, especially if the infection was long standing. So it is always best to have a thorough debridement of the bony socket and ideal to do that at the time of the extraction to give the patient the best chance of a positive outcome. It is also ideal to have a culture of the bacteria taken at the time of the extraction so that the proper antibiotic can be prescribed. I only know of a handful of dentists who do that routinely... makes no sense not to, but what can I say :/

I am glad that os #2 is spending some quality time with you. He knows that things were not ideally done initially and since he took your case on he is now obligated to see it through. I agree that you should see your internist for an evaluation of the lymph nodes and I would do that soon. Bring the written results of the CT scan with you and the films also. He will refer you to a specialist if necessary. If the dr does not suggest blood work, then it may behoove you to ask him for it. There are different tests to measure for infection and inflammation in the blood. Just talk to him about doing that as you are concerned about residual infection.

The symptoms that you have on the left side, headaches etc... sound mainly muscular to me. The fact that the tightness is easing up is a good sign! Try the warm moist compresses and see if that makes a difference. Also, you could be grinding or clenching your teeth and not know it. The person that sleeps with you.... could be a sound sleeper and not hear it...?? You mentioned that os#2 thought you had some scar tissue due to a chronic chewing habit in a certain area. If you think about that.......... ...... .... that could be a habit that you do without thinking, like clenching or grinding. As a matter of fact, in order to chew the tissue enough to create scar tissue, you would really be working that masseter muscle which is similar to what happens when you clench or grind your teeth. Make sense??

Keep us posted... and take good care of yourself.
Bryanna



Quote:
Originally Posted by Laughter222 View Post
Hello Bryanna,

I appreciate your very helpful response. Yes, I am a chicken---I have the feathers to prove it and I have a pretty impressive “Bock, bock, bock” when it's called for!

I understand the concept of being jerked around a bit; I can tell you that based on the things that have taken place, it's clear that someone was in a hurry, took shortcuts and then someone else was assigned to clean up the mess. Your detailed information has made me realize that neither oral surgeon did what was expected of him from a very logical, thorough approach. Maybe they are overbooked; on their way out of town for a month; too booked to have a patient come in right away for a procedure that will relieve them of pain galore (yes, that unhealthy granulated tissue HURT, SQUARED) ; not thinking of and doing everything possible (like taking a bacterial culture during surgery) to assure the best outcome for the patient. But those are the types of unacceptable issues you address and prevent from taking place in your business especially since you're dealing with people's health. Ok, now I'll calm down.

From my CT results: "Impression:
An expansile irregular cavity in the left mandible in the socket of left and third mandibular molar with lytic and permeative appearance of the outer cortex and periosteal reaction in view of history of recent procedure this finding is compatible with an intermediate/infectious process like osteomyelitis. Subtle asymmetrical prominence of the left masseter with inflammatory stranding of the overlying soft tissues is also likely related to myositis which could be reactive or infectious." <---for some reason, Surgeon 2 had a problem with that statement while reviewing the CT results. He said “What is could be? Is it either reactive or is it infectious???”

Bryanna breaks it down: INTERPRETATION:
AN EXTENDED OR EXPANDED AREA OF THE LOWER JAW BONE AND TOOTH SOCKET IN THE 3RD MOLAR REGION. CONTAINING DEAD CELLS AND A HOLEY APPEARANCE WITH UNDEFINED MARGINS OF THE MEMBRANE COVERING THE BONE. IN OTHER WORDS YOU HAD A TOOTH OR TWO REMOVED, IT WAS A TRAUMATIC EXTRACTION MEANING FORCEFUL AND THE SOCKET WAS NOT DEBRIDED THOROUGHLY.

THIS BIOPSY CONFIRMS INFECTION AND INFLAMMATION REFERRED TO AS OSTEOMYELITIS AND MYOSITIS.

IT ALSO INDICATES THAT YOUR MASSETER MUSCLE, THIS MUSCLE IS USED TO OPEN AND CLOSE YOUR JAW, IS ALSO INFLAMED. THIS COULD BE FROM THE SURGERY, THE INFECTION AND/OR YOU ARE GRINDING YOUR TEETH. I looked up where the masseter muscle is located and NOW something else finally makes sense. During my one follow up appointment with Surgeon 2, I complained about (what felt like) a big hard bump on the inside of my mouth. It felt as if I had stuffed the inside of my cheek with something solid but I couldn't remove it. That issue was brand new---and most definitely due to the surgery somehow. I've never felt anything like that before or since. Anyhow---the masseter muscle is EXACTLY where the issue is... Surgeon 2 examined the area I was pointing to and said that it was just scar tissue that I had accidentally bitten over a long period of time. Wow. The good news is that it isn't as “tight” as it originally felt.

From my CT results: "Multiple reactive lymph nodes are noted bilaterally scattered throughout the neck, more pronounced on the left. The largest level 1B lymph node measures 1.7 cm in the longest dimension. Another large left 2A lymph node measures 1.8 cm in the longest dimension.">>

Bryanna breaks it down: INTERPRETATION:
YOU HAVE SWOLLEN LYMPH NODES SCATTERED ON BOTH SIDE OF YOUR NECK. LARGER ONES ON THE LEFT SIDE WITH 2 OF THEM BEING PREDOMINANTLY LARGER THAN THE OTHERS.

IN OTHER WORDS, YOU HAVE AN INFECTION AND YOUR LYMPHATIC SYSTEM IS TRYING TO DEAL WITH IT. THE INFECTION WAS LIKELY PRESENT LONGER THAN YOU MAY HAD REALIZED PRIOR TO HAVING THOSE TEETH REMOVED. SO THIS WILL TAKE TIME TO SUBSIDE COMPLETELY. I had an appt. with Surgeon 2 today (3/19). He told me that he wants me to take a copy of the CT results to an ENT and ask him to look at the lymph nodes. He said that he was pretty certain that the ENT wouldn't need to do anything whatsoever, but that it'd be good for me to go to see one (I swear, I'm not making this up. Lol).

From my biopsy results:
Clinical History:
Pre-operative Diagnosis: Granulation tissue. Non-healing socket.>>

Bryanna breaks it down: EXACTLY, OSTEOMYELITIS MOST LIKELY DUE TO LONG TERM INFECTION AND INFERIOR DEBRIDEMENT OF THE BONY SOCKET WHEN THE TOOTH WAS REMOVED.

THIS IS WHY I CANNOT STRESS ENOUGH TO EVERYONE.... MAKE SURE YOU TELL YOUR ORAL SURGEON TO BE THOROUGH WITH THE DEBRIDEMENT!
I have a question; if the debridement process is successful/done right, is it capable of removing all of the osteomyelitis?
Would it have been a good idea for Surgeon 1 to take a bacterial culture during the original extraction procedure? (Honestly, I had never heard of debridement until a month ago; obviously, I had no idea that it was a part of having an extraction done. I really do learn something new all the time...).


From my biopsy results: Gross Description:
Source of specimen: area #17 -18. The specimen consists of a 2 x 1.6 x0.4 cm
aggregate of gray-tan soft tissue fragments. There are also seven gray-white fragments, 0.2 to 0.5 cm. The bone fragments are retained.
Diagnosis" Area 17-18: Abscess and subacutely inflamed granulation tissue.>>

Bryanna breaks it down: INTERPRETATION:
LOWER MANDIBLE 2ND AND 3RD MOLAR REGION.
SEVERAL SPECIMENS OF VARIOUS TEXTURE, COLOR AND SIZE WITH SOME BONE ATTACHED TO THEM.

IN OTHER WORDS... DEEP BONE INFECTION WITH BUMPY GRANULATION TISSUE AND INFLAMMATION OUT THE YING YANG!

So you had a severe infection brewing in that area prior to the extractions and even after the extraction due to an incomplete debridement of the bone. The cause of the infection, the teeth, were removed but the site was not able to heal properly because the infected tissue had not been removed. Given the lapse of time before the site was finally debrided, the infection went deeper. Hopefully you are on the mend now. Another thing that disturbs me is that there was no bacterial culture taken according to this biopsy report. Which is just plain irresponsible because that would have determined the proper strain of antibiotic to use. Were there any other reports with this one? No other reports are available. I can only assume from that and the fact that Surgeon 2 has never made a comment regarding a bacterial culture.

<<Fast forward to today. Since my last appt. with Surgeon 2 (Surgeon 1 hasn't returned yet), I have had a bit of pain/discomfort. I am getting headaches focused mostly on the left side (which is where the teeth were extracted); I feel random aches in my jaw/mouth area. The most bothersome is when the lymph nodes in my neck ache---last night they woke me up while I was sleeping. I am assuming that my jaw/nerves/you name it are all trying to get back to normal and it will take a while.>>

FORGET SURGEON #1.... HE COULD HAVE DONE A BETTER JOB. BEING IN A HURRY WHEN PERFORMING ROUTINE ORAL SURGERY IS NOT ACCEPTABLE AS FAR AS I AM CONCERNED. THE HEADACHES, RANDOM ACHES AND PAINS COULD BE DUE TO THE INFLAMMATION FROM THE BONE AND MASSETER MUSCLE. ARE YOU GRINDING YOUR TEETH?? IF SO, I SUGGEST THAT YOU APPLY WARM MOIST HEAT ON THE LEFT SIDE OF YOUR FACE, HEAD AND NECK TO ENCOURAGE BLOOD FLOW AND REDUCE INFLAMMATION. ESPECIALLY BEFORE YOU GO TO SLEEP AT NIGHT. Bryanna, I have never been known to grind my teeth at night. I have no reason to think that I ever have nor has anyone ever told me I did...I have known people who did grind their teeth during the night and it made me about pass out. lol

THE LYMPH NODES CAN REMAIN TENDER FOR SEVERAL WEEKS. THE LYMPHATIC SYSTEM IS DOING ITS JOB OF RIDDING YOUR BODY OF THE TOXINS FROM THE INFECTION. HOWEVER, YOU NEED TO MONITOR THE SEVERITY OF THE TENDERNESS AS TO IF IT IS GETTING BETTER OR NOT. IT SHOULD GRADUALLY IMPROVE UNTIL COMPLETE DISSIPATION. IF IT SEEMS LIKE IT'S NOT IMPROVING OR IT'S GETTING WORSE THEN SEE YOUR ORAL SURGEON #2, NOT OS #1, AND POSSIBLY YOUR PHYSICIAN FOR A WBC AND SED RATE BLOOD TEST. Question; What would each blood test reflect? The WBC would show if there was any infection, right? I will definitely have those tests done at the Internists appointment.

Hope this info helps. Please keep us posted... Bryanna

Based on your advice, I decided to work with Surgeon 2 and forget about Surgeon 1 altogether. My appointment today with Surgeon 2 was scheduled because I wanted to make sure there wasn't any infection taking place and that I wanted to update him on how I've been feeling. We are 2 weeks out from the surgery.

I said that I had a decent amount of pain whenever I ate, sometimes drank and whenever I yawn.
I showed him where my mouth, jaw, side of face and ear aches on occasion and hurts on and off as well. I told him that I have been experiencing frequent headaches which are more intense on the left side of my head.
He asked if any of it woke me up through the night and I told him that the lymph nodes in my neck do.
He examined me for any signs of infection; he said that he saw nothing that would lead him to believe that infection was present. He said that he took a lot of time with me and made sure he got everything out that needed to be removed.
He asked if I was taking anything for the aches and pains. I told him that I take either Tylenol, Motrin or the Norco he prescribed as needed.
He asked for me to be patient. He doesn't want to go back in surgically unless he “knew what he was looking for.” He wasn't going to prescribe antibiotics just in case there might be an issue that isn't visible. He asked for me to give it 2 weeks and to come back in to see him. He said that he hopes by then I will be just fine.
He said if I had trouble between now and then to not hesitate to come in...

He asked me to go see an ENT (I mentioned that in the CT results area above).

He also asked me to see my Internist regarding a non-dental related comment on the CT results.
“Incidental note made of azygous lobe in the right upper lobe of the lung. There is an ill-defined 1.4 cm lymph node in the superior mediastinum in the right paratracheal region.”

That's about everything that I can share at the moment. It goes without saying, but I'm open to any feedback whatsoever.
Thank you again for listening and for helping me to better understand what the heck is going on.

~Laughter (Bock, bock, bock)
__________________
Bryanna

***I have been in the dental profession for 4 decades. I am an educator and Certified Dental Assistant extensively experienced in chair side assisting and dental radiography. The information that I provide here is my opinion based on my education and professional experience. It is not meant to be taken as medical advice.***
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