Yes, Hopeless, that is the way I learned too.

Since my hubby doesn't like gravy.... I don't make it anymore. End of that story, but sugar...never have had it that way.

I have a Nesco countertop Dutch Oven. My grandmother used to
use it instead of an oven, and gave me one for my wedding years ago. Its cord died, so I bought a new one unit. When you put turkey parts in there, some seasoning/broth/light garlic in the bottom with the turkey on the elevated grill included, you can cook the most flavorful meal with carrots, or yams, or potatoes on top of the turkey, all at once and it comes out tender, steamed and really doesn't need gravy. I baste every 15 to 20 minutes while it goes, and it takes about an hour or so depending on how much you put in there. I taught hubby how to use it when I was working so many hours...in the past.
So I just buy a package of thighs, and a small turkey breast and do it that way. No more struggling with the "carcass" for the days after.

Here are the ovens... as you can see they have become rather fixey today. Mine is a plain old white one.
http://www.nesco.com/products/Roaste...-Roaster-Oven/

My grandmother used to cook the most tender beef chuck roasts in hers.