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Old 03-31-2018, 09:28 AM
soccertese soccertese is offline
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Join Date: Nov 2007
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soccertese soccertese is offline
Magnate
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 2,531
15 yr Member
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnt View Post
lurkingforacure writes:

"We are at the point to where we can't really tell if we've taken pills or not-we feel crappy most of the time. This has been going on before our Mylan generic got switched over to Sun, though. The neuro agrees we're undermedicated, and that the therapeutic dose probably needs to increase, but doesn't want to increase because that would put us at 1,000mg/day. Or more. Yikes."

A number of issues are raised here.

1. The maximum dose of levodopa.
See the thread "Max Sinemet Dosage????", ashleyk, June 2015
Max Sinemet Dosage???
For the reasons explained there, I see no reason for an arbitrary limit of 1000mg/day of levodopa: for some PwP it will be too much, while for others they could benefit from more.

2. The maximum dose of carbidopa.
Brod et al. write[1]:
"Recommended doses of carbidopa are 75–200 mg/day. Higher doses could inhibit brain aromatic amino acid decarboxylase and reduce clinical effects."
However, their work shows:
"Doses of 450 mg/day of carbidopa did not reduce the responses to levodopa infusion, extending the safe range of carbidopa to 450 mg/day."
So, with a normal ratio of 4:1 levodopa:carbidopa this would indicate a maximum of 1800mg/day of levodopa. An alternative option is to take some of the levodopa dose in the 10:1 formulation.

3. The efficacy of generics.
Generics must satisfy bioequivalence rules. These are based on the pharmacokinetic parameters CMAX (maximum concentration) and AUC (area under the curve) [2]:
"The FDA considers two products bioequivalent if the 90% CI of the relative mean Cmax, AUC(0–t) and AUC(0–∞) of the test (e.g. generic formulation) to reference (e.g. innovator brand formulation) should be within 80% to 125% in the fasting state."
This is complicated. It is couched in probabalistic terms. I make a very rough estimate that this means that it is OK, as far as the regulators are concerned, for variations of up to 5% by weight of the active component to be acceptable. This variation is noticeable by PwP. They would notice that they went "off" sooner than usual or that they never crossed the "on" threshold.

References

[1] "Are high doses of carbidopa a concern? A randomized clinical trial in Parkinson’s disease"
Lissa S. Brod, MD,1,2 Jason L. Aldred, MD,1,2 and John G. Nutt, MD1,
Mov Disord, Apr 2012
Are high doses of carbidopa a concern? A randomized clinical trial in Parkinson’s disease

[2] Bioequivalence - Wikipedia

John
JOHN, i haven't looked at this for awhile but generic mfgs don't have to test their drugs on pd'ers, i believe they test only on non-pd'ers' for blood levels. i can understand the reasoning there. and up until recently there has been no testing required for a generic ER (extended release) version to have a similar drug release pattern, i.e., in a healthy patient, what is the half-life and they don't have to prove that it's as long as the brand name. you can assume that the generic mfg would want to be close to the brand name's ER characteristics but i doubt there are that many patients taking brand name sinemet to notice a difference because insurance companies won't readily pay the higher cost. and to totally upset the apple cart, the original mfg of sinemet is squibb who prior to 2012 paid MERCK to make sinemet and MERCK contracts with mylan to make the drug, check the SINEMET insert, there's a picture of the tiny picture on every SINEMET label saying MFG'ED BY MYLAN. So in this case, i'm not sure what numbers the FDA uses to determine if a new generic sinemet's l-dopa peak concentration is ok, i assume MERCK, since i assume that the generic testing involves testing the current brand name, not just using +30 year old numbers from squibb. i'm not criticizing the MYLAN brand, i like it. i liked teva better but they sold off their generic rights along with their rights to the ACTAVIS brand to MAYNE when they bought ALLERGAN which ownd the indian mfg ACTAVIS. The end result is no more TEVA c/l and MAYNE is now selling the C/L made by ACTAVIS and possibly SUN is selling the ACTAVIS manufactured product?

i've noticed differences with some generics, primarily i just feel sick when taking it and/or less relief, i blame feeling sick on dyes, fillers and possible contaminants plus the extra stuff they add to the ER variations to slowly break down and release little chunks of tablet which extends it's lifetime. i assume the reason C/L ER releases C/L for a longer time period than the IR C/L is for that reason, the longer it is protected from enzymes in the stomach breaking down the l-dopa, the greater chance of more l-dopa getting to the small intestine where it is absorbed. that's why you want to slow your stomach emptying a little when taking C/R, if you speed up emptying by taking CR on an empty stomach more of it will leave the stomach still in the pill form which will pass right by the area of the small intestine where it is absorbed. i have to admit i've never found information on the internet describing exactly how CR C/L works to slow release but my guess sounds pretty good?

this is a complicated subject and i'm no expert. all i can say is try to have a 30 day backup supply, more if possible, of your C/L regardless of whether you think one generic is better than another. disruptions in supply chains are going to become more common with global warming and more raw ingredients bought from other countries, especially china and india and more mfg'i
ng occurring in lesser developed countries. there's just a greater chance of a plant being damaged like what happened to mylan in puerto rico, where the mfg and wholesalers didn't have enough inventory to keep supplying the drug or god forbid, trump puts a tariff on some ingredients used in manufacturing ER (cr) C/L, maybe some rare wax, or a bad batch of drug is manufactured for a myriad of reasons. and manufacturers can make a bad batch of drugs, doesn't happen often so good to have some pills from an older batch to compare against. this ain't no trivial matter, a small difference in strength or with the CR/ER versions poor quality or just more of the addons to make the pill dissolve slowly MIGHT make that generic intolerable imho. i kind of feel like i might be unusually sensitive to differences and my neuro doesn't believe there are major differences so i may just be creating a false alarm. fwiw, here's an interesting marketing paper from merck, i think 2011 date, where they make the argument that name brand is better!! is it just patient perception? i forgot to point out that even though MYLAN mfg's SINEMET for MERCK, the mylan and MERCK tablets aren't absolutely identical,the mylan is scored, the brand name isn't. and i don't know if the formulas are the same.
Parkinson drug sinemet-LIFE CYCLE STRATEGIC PLAN

"A problem in manufacturing change from Merck to Mylan in 2010 lead to worldwide shortage.  Despite the differences of Mylan Sinemet from Merck Sinemet, it is still more effective than generic formulations"


this is in the presentation:

Non-medicinal ingredients • Crospovidone, hydroxypropylcellulose, magnesium stearate, microcrystalline cellulose, pregelatinized starch Storage and stability • Store your tablets at room temperature (15°C–30°C). Store in tightly closed container, protected from light and moisture.

this presentation is very interesting if you want more info on CL in general, it's history and how it works. best quick read i've seen.
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