Well, if that's a coincidence, it's a rather big coincidence in our small group, isn't it? Interesting indeed.

Secular indeed. Small bit of history: in 1950, 95% of Flemish people were full blown Catholics. The Catholic party had an absolute majority. Most schools, hospitals, psych ward, mutual funds, addict treatment (even unions...) etc were in the hands of priests and monks.

Today, about 4 or 5 % goes to church (mostly 60 to 70+), a slightly bigger portion goes to church 3 times in their life (birth, marriage, funeral) - but even that number is dropping.

The 60ties brought a huge wave of secularization. Some of our churches were turned into concert halls, hotels, libraries (not kidding). Most people now believe in "something", but it's not a big part of daily live. There is a huge shortage of priests (some of them have to service 4 to 5 communities/churches).

The AA-model does exist, but nowhere near the magnitude as it does in the US. It is seen by many as "too American" for our way of life/thinking. One of our founders has a 30 year stint with AA, and it's out of frustration that he started to think about a "broader" idea that includes all the existing groups, but puts a layer on top. Just getting all those groups (again mostly secular) under one umbrella was a huge task. Connecting them to the professionals in the field another one. But we(they) made it.

He happened to talk about numbers yesterday: he went to 2 AA groups, one with 20 persons, one with 10. Each year, he saw about 30 new people arriving, but the year ended with 30 people still. Over 10 years, he saw 270 people come and go (and get lost in society, booze, or death). He went to many funerals... These numbers are representative for AA as a whole in Flanders. (they might even be worse in the French speaking part, as they are typically less catholic.)

So: we don't want to *replace* those groups; we work together with them (they each agreed to do that). We will use addicts from their groups (but not exclusively), and train them to work with other addicts on a general level. It is not a recruiting tool - although some addicts may end up/feel best in AA or NA etc. if that is what they want.

My rehab was called "The Brothers of Alexian", and had gone the same route: from a 100% faith based catholic institution to a totally secular one. There are still 2 or 3 monks alive, but the hospital is run by the state now. We had christians, 2 muslims, non-believers etc. Faith isn't an "issue", and the method was CBT. I talked with one of those monks one time in 70 days. Nice guy BTW, and he was totally cool with me not being a believer, we had an interesting convo.

Just to say: whatever the numbers, we mostly deal with secular groups (and as you probably know the amount of "faith" used in AA varies strongly, even in the US). The 3 to 10% was also the accepted number in that rehab, in our scientific studies etc.

So, someone having a 10 times better result must be on to something... This doc is obviously also a member of our organization, and is now writing a manual (a state initiative) for all the other GP's in Flanders. Key is that whatever method is used (sometimes psychs are involved, sometimes not - it's all personalized to the addict's needs), there is always support from sober addicts that may or may not have come from self-help groups like AA, SOS, etc.

In short: we strongly believe that (most) addicts can/should be helped by the "first line" (GP's, social workers, volunteers), in an early stage, with the lowest possible threshold, and with the help of people "who have been there", and with their family/friends (the doc brings them in after a few sessions). If this works, this would not only mean more people that get help, but better results, and for a lot less money. The psychiatric hospitals and ER's can then be used for what they are meant to be used.

No wonder our government is going "whoa Nelly!"

Thanks. I was going to take it slowly, but it's properly exciting. I'm still watching my pitfalls closely, and take a pause when it gets to be too much, but this is something I want to sink my teeth in, and I'd be a fool if I didn't.

I will update the other thread about recovery when I have a bit more time, gotta prepare our meeting for tomorrow.