Thanks Dan. I'm going to ask the pain doc on Wed about it and then also the other one in Sept. I would be willing to try that if they think appropriate. You sound like me on the med front and trying so many. Are the patches the size of the lidocaine ones?I didn't find that helpful but I read about the patch you have and that is a narcotic.Its safer though cause its lower dose? Thats awesome about how active you are. You give me hope.