Linnie,

I’m sorry you took my reference to your posts discussing your experiences with a blood disorder as some sort of editorial about your motives in your previous post: But my warning was not just for coumadin users, and it was more objective than you make it out to be. You specifically discussed blood thinners and I felt an explanation of them was necessary and related my experiences to show I fully understood the import of what you said. (For the reader: Coumadin is a brand name for warfarin).

As to your statements here, I will try to reply briefly and directly to the points you make.

For instance, you casually mentioned taking DMSO, but DMSO is a very hazardous substance that is a powerful organic solvent. I also wrote: That much DMSO made me feel pretty sick, but sick is better than possible full-body RSD.

I have written posts about DMSO in the past, including abstracts demonstrating the efficacy of that drug in the acute (inflammatory) stage of RSD, and; that the Government of the Netherlands has mandated that physicians there make DMSO available to their RSD patients.

DMSO is topical and I believe we need a systemic antioxidant. I don't recommend its use, if for no other reason than daily application to one's extremities would be messy and could make you feel sick.

I have written numerous posts and don’t fault anyone for not reading all of them, but I want to make it clear that there is scientific support for the use of this volatile chemical. As in many things, we constantly make decisions involving balancing risks and benefits, and in this instance, I felt the circumstances justified the temporary discomfort I experienced.

Also, there was a landmark study on antioxidants that came out in the Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA) that actually implicates them in increasing mortality…..The authors found that beta carotene significantly increased mortality. I did a quick Yahoo search of beta carotene and found a link to the University of California, Berkeley Wellness Newsletter (which I assume to be a reliable source), which included this passage:

Beta carotene is one of several carotenoids, natural plant pigmentsfound in deeply colored fruits and vegetables. Others include alpha carotene, lutein, lycopene, and zeaxanthin. Beta carotene and some other carotenoids are “provitamin A carotenoids,” meaning that the body can convert them into vitamin A. Beta carotene is also an antioxidant; thus it may help deactivate free radicals, unstable molecules that are by-products of cells “burning” oxygen for energy. Free radicals can damage the basic structure of cells and thus lead to chronicdiseases (notably cancer and heart disease) and accelerate the aging process. There is no daily recommended intake, or safe upper level. (emphasis added)

Beta carotene is not an antioxidant; it has antioxidant properties. The same is true of vitamins E and C. They have other functions besides neutralizing free radicals, and I’m perfectly willing to concede that those functions could be harmful, especially when consumed in large quantities.

Antioxidants appear to have a single function: They surrender an electron to a free radical molecule, allowing it to return to its normal state. Without antioxidants, they would steal an electron from another molecule, which would restore them, but turn the victim into a free radical.

These electron thefts are chain reactions in which the cells loses energy with each theft, and when they involve DNA, they enhance the risk of mutation.

I do not recommend any of these things as useful in delaying the onset of symptom migration. I recommend antioxidants and specifically GSE because of its low cost and widespread availability,

it is folk knowledge that antioxidants are beneficial… I refer you, and everyone else, to my statement that I found more than 3900 abstracts discussing antioxidants in my brief PubMed search, and suggest that this is more than “folk knowledge”. When in doubt, forget Jimmy Buffett: Research it for yourself.

ADDED LATER: Using "antioxidants" as the single keyword, I found 65,235 documents listed in MedScape and 242,148 in Pubmed; this suggests that science takes this subject very seriously. Not all of the documents found at these sources represent actual research, but scienctists don't waste a lot of time on "folk knowledge", urban myths, etc).

Also, free radicals DO perform essential defense mechanisms in the body. They do indeed: In fact, they have been identified as neurotransmitters too.

They have also been identified as damaging nearly everything they touch. The roles you mention are destructive (sometimes beneficial for the body), but to put to rest fears that antioxidant supplements could impair the body's ability to perform these functions: Our mitochondria produce one OFR for every ATP, with some cells containing more than 100 mitochondria, and estimates of 50 to 100 trillion cells in our body, I don’t think an additional 300mg of GSE daily will reduce OFR levels to a point that the body suffers.

So in the face of this evidence, maybe people should be cautious about these specific supplements, You haven’t provided any evidence that antioxidants in general, or GSE specifically, poses any danger whatsoever (except with the concurrent use of anticoagulants).

It is virtually impossible to know what kinds of impurities and toxins are in these supplements, most of which are manufactured in China.

I suggest you’re suggesting that we avoid putting anything into our bodies that we don’t know for sure was made or grown in the U.S. In that case, one must still be very careful: Witness the recent reports involving E-coli in spinach, lettuce and ground beef.

Nothing you have written persuades me that grape seed extract poses a greater threat to my health than the widespread inflammation that resulted when I stopped taking it. I hope it doesn’t persuade anyone else, either…Vic


NOTE: Ali, I will reply to your post, but I got so angry at the way you are being treated and your obvious signs of RSD ignored, that I decided to follow my 24 hour rule: Take a day to calm down…Vic