I'm only trying to say it takes a lot of work on the persons part rather than the reliance on other people such as surgens to do it for ya. So many people such as me when I first found this site are looking for surgical means to end their pain and I totally understand that. I'm trying to help other people realize that there are other options and the best ones take a lot of time and work on the part of the individual not on a surgen.

,Mike