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Old 02-18-2008, 05:30 PM
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cyclelops cyclelops is offline
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Join Date: May 2007
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15 yr Member
cyclelops cyclelops is offline
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 2,049
15 yr Member
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I have this 'organic' experiment going....and it is hugely labor intensive...You have to find a way around pesticide, herbicide and fertilizer. Fertilizer (compost) is the easiest, but you can only apply it in fall after all crops are off...and it must be 'treated or seasoned.' Herbicides I have never used, and I have a weedy garden...you can use mulch or plastic weed barrier. Pesticides you can companion plant.

I have apple trees, and there is no way you can raise an organic apple....but you can peel them and I am sure that helps.

I have not sprayed the apple trees, but this year I will have to, but at least I choose what to apply and how much.

I have cherries, and those you can do organic...but you have to put these nets over them to not have birds eat them. I do plan on putting in a few pear trees. I raise non-treated raspberries, and have never in my entire life used pesticides on them. I also have rhubarb. Strawberries can also be done without pesticides.

I have a terrible time raising cabbage, brocolli or any cruciferous veggie without some kind of pesticide. They are terribly susceptible to cabbage worms...I would think that perhaps nets may work, I don't know...

I tried this last year,and I tried all kinds of stuff including jalepeno laced water...I understand you can co-plant them with some kinds of plants and flowers that repel cabbage moths. I will try that this year. I have a chart as to what to interplant with what to deter pests.

Green beans, all kinds of peppers, beets, spinach, lettuce do fine...no help.

I have yet to raise nice corn...sunflowers did great.

Squash used to do well, now we have invasions of squash bugs...not squash borers....This hard winter may kill squash bugs, (it is killing me) as they have moved up from the south and do not like hard winters. Squash bugs descend like locusts and if you get them, kiss any viney crop goodbye or spray or powder them...I have heard you can coplant to avoid them and I will try that....I was lucky and got in my crops early...I planted very early and got pumpkins in early August, and in mid August the squash bugs hit with a vengence, by then all my squash, of all types were ready to get stored. My cukes did OK, but the squash bugs also eat cuke vines...if it is a vine, they eat it.

Rutabagas and turnips do fine. I have not done carrots but I think they do fine. Radishes do fine.

I have not tried potatoes, but I do know from living in a potato growing region further north, that they are heavily pesticided and herbicided

Tomatoes are my mainstay and do very well....

To be certain your foods are organic, Oregon Tilth certification is best, and it requries that no artificial fertilizer, or pesticides be on the food for 3 years....you can only apply compost in the fall....you can look up Oregon Tilth and it gives you the criteria. Water sources for your food are tested as are adjoining fields....because I am surrounded by heavily treated typical farmland, my 'garden' would probably not meet Oregon Tilth criteria....I would need a buffer zone and I don't have enough land for that, I don't think...they don't really specify how big the buffer needs to be. I do have over 100 feet from the farmer's lot line, but not from the road, (road chemicals, oil etc).

My water nitrate level is 25ppm. The state cut off level for a mandated reverse osmosis system is 10ppm. There is no safety level for adults but infants exposed to 10ppm, can develop methmyglobimenia, which is blue baby syndrome and if not caught can be fatal....I can't imagine that once you are past infancy that nitrates in your water are harmless. A fish can not live in water over 25ppm. My beta needs to have RO water or bottled water.

Our water is often sold as bottled water....we have a lot of water bottling plants including the areas that are in sand country and have heavy pesticide application. I am sure that bottled water is tested for a lot of chemicals, but it is not pure either. We can't expose ourselves to this nitrate, nor to the atrizine and potentially arsenic on well water systems and any one with a well should have at least nitrates tested for. Nitrate levels and atrazine go together.

City water drinkers have their water tested by the municipality. Well water drinkers have no option but to take care of their own water quality....only upon selling property is your water tested....public health nurses do come out to new moms, and inform them of nitrate water testing. If you sell a home on a private well system, you must test your water for coliform bacteria and it must be zero, and for nitrates, which must be below 10ppm. My well is pretty deep for the area. Wells are recommended to be tested yearly for coliform and chlorinated as needed.

Natural means nothing....even organic can mean nothing.

We have no input into foreign foods or even an idea of what regulations they apply. We don't even know what is foreign or contains foreign ingredients. European food is likely to exceed our standards, with the exception of British beef or lamb.

You can shop at organic food stores, which, I would think would have to be responsible in terms of their reputation.

There is one commonly available wheat flour company that is American....they are not organic tho. You can buy a lot of specialty flours at the regular grocery stores, and any one going gluten free has used these...I have a pantry full.

Cooking oils are another issue....I suppose Olive Oil is best.

You can get premixed gluten free stuff, but I don't know how much of it is organic....I imagine they make it and it isnt' cheap.

We have organic milk, cheese and eggs readily available in regular stores here. You can buy organic yogurt, but I often make mine....WHEN I feel energetic, which is not right now.

Coffee is an issue and you can buy organic coffee. I don't know how organic orange juice is, but I try to buy at least Florida orange juice....the bigger organic food chains carry all kinds of organic fruit juice. But expect to pay.

You can buy 'transitional' which is what I would call my garden produce....everything washes down eventually....so I have no real hope of achieving real organic food....they use too much stuff on adjacent fields. I still get the bugs tho, so, it must be less poisoned than the corn or soybeans around me. At least, my food is not directly sprayed or dusted.

I am surprised any fish are in the river, with the nitrates in my aquifer...but they are. I have heard mixed reviews on wild versus farm raised fish.

It is either very labor intensive to do your own organic, or very expensive to buy premade....even fresh organic is pricey.

I know you can buy 'organic' meat, including ground beef and ground round....but the butcher admits, you really can't rule out mad cow. Our meat, unlike Japan's is not tested. They test very few cattle and most meat is so mixed up....every thing is so mixed up....stuff can be grown here and sent to China for processing and visa versa. I have nagged and nagged about the idea of processing meat in any place that does deer. I don't see the issue of chronic wasting disease as all that different from mad cow, as they are both spongiform encephalopathies, and bovine to human transmission as well as elk to human transmission of the disese to me, negates all claims that there is no bovine to deer transmission or visa versa....and you can not remove prions from contaminated equipment. You can't 'kill' or 'sanitize' a prion off of something. I can not understand for the life of me, why they insist on mixing huge batches of meat from all over the country or world in the same equipment. The less your meat is cut up the better. Some cuts are better. More muscled cuts are the best. I used to love prime rib...still like it, but gave it up...now the choice is filet mignon.

Then I have my weeks or months when I am too sick or fatigued and I simply have to resort to yogurt or pudding and at times, no it isnt organic...I have had my times that I owe my life to Ensure....organic or not!

I think our bodies have the ability to adjust to toxins and germs to a great extent, it is just we are so blasted with toxins these days and we have no idea where they are coming from or what they even are.

Can you imagine 'downed cows' in hot lunch meat??? Come on, where are these people's morals?

Last edited by cyclelops; 02-18-2008 at 05:54 PM.
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