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Old 06-09-2011, 12:04 PM
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catra121 catra121 is offline
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Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Illinois
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catra121 catra121 is offline
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Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Illinois
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Originally Posted by fmichael View Post
Hello again. Sorry to hear what you are going through. You say the "trial and error continues." Forgive me, but that seems about right.

In essence, I think you're being treated for fibromyalgia or a peripheral neuropathy, but not CRPS, whether you've been let in on this bit of information or not. If I may, the proper name for Cymbalta is Duloxetine. And if you run a PubMed search for "Tramadol Duloxetine," you'll get 34 hits, almost all of them dealing with fibromyalgia or peripheral neuropathies. And of the 34 articles, only four are freely available through "PubMed Central," and then only three are in English:
Fibromyalgia: presentation and management with a focus on pharmacological treatment, Sumpton JE, Moulin DE, Pain Res Manag. 2008 Nov-Dec; 13(6):477-83, ONLINE TEXT @ http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti...f/prm13477.pdf

Management of fibromyalgia syndrome--an interdisciplinary evidence-based guideline [Behandlung des Fibromyalgiesyndroms – eine interdisziplinäre S3-Leitlinie], Häuser W, Arnold B, Eich W, et al, Ger Med Sci. 2008 Dec 9; 6: Doc 14, ONLINE TEXT @ http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti.../GMS-06-14.pdf

Effects of treatments for symptoms of painful diabetic neuropathy: systematic review, Wong MC, Chung JW, Wong TK, BMJ 2007 Jul 14; 335(7610): 87, Epub 2007 Jun 11, ONLINE TEXT @ http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti...s-00087-el.pdf
And what do each of them suggest by way of pharmacological therapies? With minor variations it's (1) Duloxetine (Cymbalta) ("FDA-approved indication for fibromyalgia"), (2) Tramadol and (3) Gabapentin (Neurontin) or Pregabalin (Lyrica). Sound familiar?

What sticks out here is the universality of Tramadol, whereas RSD/CRPS patients are treated with a host of opioids, most of us blowing through Ultram (Tramadol) in a few weeks on our way to much harder sauces. And the funny thing is that Tramadol has a particularly bad rap with nausea. By way of example, if you compare the FDA approved Prescribing Information sheets for oxycodone and Ultram, you'll see that oxycodone is associated with nausea in less than 3% of those participating in trials, while nausea with is dose-dependent with Tramadol, ranging from 15.1 to 26.2%!!! Compare, http://pain-topics.org/pdf/PI/PI_Oxy...blets-30mg.pdf with, http://www.ortho-mcneil.com/ortho-mc...r.pdf#zoom=100.

In fact, there's a whole sub-industry devoted to combining Tramadol with Acetaminophen (Tylenol or Paracetamol in the U.K) just to cut down on the side-effects of Tramadol, primarily nausea. See, e.g., Tramadol/paracetamol combination tablet for postoperative pain following ambulatory hand surgery: a double-blind, double-dummy, randomized, parallel-group trial, Rawal N, Macquaire V, Catalá E et al, J Pain Res. 2011 Apr 8; 4:103-10, ONLINE TEXT @ http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21559356:
Adverse events (mainly nausea, dizziness, somnolence, vomiting, and increased sweating) occurred less frequently in patients under combination treatment (P = 0.004).
So if your doctors aren't going to give you oxycodone, why not cut the Tramadol with a little of your old friend, Tylenol? [In the U.S., the product is marketed under the trade-name Ultracet.] I would submit it's because they are slavishly adhering to the Groupthink on treating fibromyalgia and/or peripheral neuropathies. To the letter, thank you.

So, unless you have already done so, can't you please just get an ASAP consultation with Timothy Lubinow, MD at Rush, just in the name of a second opinion on CRPS? I'm on bended knee on this one, where all of the evidence suggests that no one's changes of going into permanent remission on ketamine improve over time, to put it mildly, but I think we've been over that ground before.

Please.

Mike
I had been taking the Tramadol with Tylenol (1000mg of Tylenol with each 100mg of Tramadol). But now they have me off Tramadol completely and the pain is through the roof...though even before it wasn't doing very much to control the pain. And if they're not really treating me for CRPS then it would make sense that they haven't been able to get the pain under control.

I want to go to Rush...but I can't afford it. I know that sucks and it's my decision...but it's just not covered by my insurance and work comp isn't doing ANYTHING while my case is in appeal (THEY appealed it, not me). So, I am doing the best I can for now with what I can afford. When all the "legal" stuff gets taken care of then I will most likely be able to go to Rush...but I just can't right now. When you deal with work comp, you're stuck with going to doctors that are referred by other doctors and then waiting for approval. When you go through regular insurance, you're stuch with what's either in network or what you can afford. There are even some places that won't let me make an appointment at all since it is a work related injury and work comp isn't going to approve ANYTHING until the appeal is done (which could take years if they take it all the way to the end..don't think they will since they have absolutely no evidence for anything since even THEIR doctors agree with what mine said)...but work comp won't comply with what the doctor's offices require in order to run it through my regular insurance. It's frustrating...cause I just want to get better and focus on my health...but it just isn't going to work out that way for me.

Anyway...have a call out to my doctor to see what they can do about this now because I cannot continue with the Cymbalta given how violently ill I get. I still am dizzy and nauseous all the time and vomit several times a day besides what happens with the Cymbalta, but I think that other stuff is my reaction to the pain because I have always been one to throw up when I am in a lot of pain and these past few months have been worse than anything I remember in the past.
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