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Old 10-01-2015, 07:41 AM #31
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End of week two. General findings: improved state of muscular contraction and marked decrease in paresthesias. Better sleep. Etc. (Will post tomorrow on week two findings).

As a result, conducted further reading and decided that I will continue this course of treatment at 2000mcg daily for 90 days (based on 2011 evidence that supports this - see below). Then I will reassess. Then, if required, proceed to 120 days at same level.


The following information is from Am Fam Physician. 2011 Jun 15;83(12):1425-1430.

Link: http://www.aafp.org/afp/2011/0615/p1425.html


Quote:
Patient information: A handout on this topic is available at http://familydoctor.org/familydoctor...amin-b-12.html.
Quote:
Treatment

Treatment of clinical vitamin B12 deficiency has traditionally been accomplished by intramuscular injection of crystalline vitamin B12 at a dosage of 1 mg weekly for eight weeks, followed by 1 mg monthly for life.1,2 In a 2005 Cochrane review, patients who received high dosages of oral vitamin B12 (1 to 2 mg daily = 1000 - 2000 mcg) for 90 to 120 days had an improvement in serum vitamin B12 similar to patients who received intramuscular injections of vitamin B12.20 These results were consistent in patients regardless of the etiology of their vitamin B12 deficiency, including malabsorption states and pernicious anemia. Given the lower cost and ease of administration of oral vitamin B12, this might be a reasonable choice for replacement in many patients. In cases of megaloblastic anemia, reticulocytosis generally occurs within a few days, and the hematocrit generally normalizes over several weeks. Advanced neurologic symptoms may not respond to replacement. Vitamin B12 has been demonstrated to be safe in doses up to 1,000 times the recommended dietary allowance and is safe in pregnancy.
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Old 10-01-2015, 07:48 AM #32
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This is a better link to AAFP:

http://www.aafp.org/afp/2003/0301/p979.html

This is my B12 informational thread....it has more detail than the medical ones:

http://neurotalk.psychcentral.com/thread85103.html

Alcoholics can also benefit from thiamine or its newer cousin benfotiamine. Thiamine is a cofactor in removing aldehydes which are byproducts of metabolism of ethyl alcohol.
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Old 10-14-2015, 04:14 AM #33
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Dear MrsD, I already provided the 2003 link in post #25.

http://www.aafp.org/afp/2003/0301/p979.html

The 2011 link was provided to show the B12 deficiency treatment protocol that has changed markedly in the last 8 years.

http://www.aafp.org/afp/2011/0615/p1425.html

AND B12 also suffers greatly in people with a history of excessive alcohol consumption but this is often masked when taking an oral multi B and especially FOLATE ( ie., B9 or Folic Acid) replacement, as this will mask deficiency of B12, but the damage to peripheral nervous system continues.

QED.
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Old 10-22-2015, 09:47 PM #34
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Dear people, B12! I'll say it again, B12! Google it and see just what an impact it has when people are deficient in it.

Forasmuch as people claim B1 is the main thing lost to alcohol dependency, it is not true. B12 also takes a massive hit, probably more than B1. A multi or taking Folic acid (folate, B9) MASKS the issue.

Big pharma doesn't make profits from cures, but keeps making return clientele to fuel one of the biggest monopolies on the planet.

As for me,

I have never felt better as I did since taking the B12. Not yet perfect. But paresthesias are at an all time low. Face shape is returning, muscles are starting to wake up and fill out again after the erosion of neurogenic atrophy. Skin color is wonderful, seborrheic dermatitis is gone. Sleep patterns are stabilizing.

My warning is this: B12. Take it, and make sure you do not become someone who is exploited by big pharmaceutical companies and poor grade vitamin companies.

This stupid, evil system values youth. In my experience, as soon as you pass the barrier of 30, kids at McDonalds start calling you "Sir." And doctors become more and more "conservative" and minimalist in their treatments.

ALWAYS demand your rights. You have the same rights as anyone. All people have the right to proper and fair treatment. And YOU have the right to make sure you get the best care, especially for something as harrowing as a neurological issue.

You are not created to be a purse, wallet, piggy bank for big companies. You are human. You have dignity and pride and worth! Never dare give up the image of who you REALLY are.

Peace, love and flowers to you all.

I go by 'Kris Whitestone' in the "cult camp" of Facebook. Be sure to look me up some day, if you ever want to stop by

As my final post - here is my regimen that has done me the world of good:

1200 : 85mg B6, B1 (250mg), B3 (400mg), B5 (300mg), Vit A (10,000 international units- do not used for prolonged time), D3 (1000 iu), Magnesium (300mg) - take ALL with FOOD. [All the Bs are contained in a B complex]

1400 : Calcium (600mg) with food

1700 : E (500iu) and Zinc (125mg as amino chelate; do not take for prolonged time) with food

1800 : Magnesium (300mg) with food

2200 : B12 2000mcg TAKE ON EMPTY STOMACH (2000 for first month or two, then reduce to 1000mcg oral daily for up to two years. If symptoms increase, return to 2000mcg for a month at a time before reducing to 1000mcg). This is the most important vitamin, to which every other element in the regimen is hinged. (You may choose to start your day with this instead of the B complex - just switch them out)

0000 : B1 (250mg), Magnesium (300mg), D (300mg) with food.
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Old 10-24-2015, 11:35 AM #35
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See you in Cult Camp, Kris.
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Old 10-27-2015, 03:51 AM #36
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Originally Posted by newstown View Post
See you in Cult Camp, Kris.
Haha I'll be there!
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Old 10-27-2015, 03:54 AM #37
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I was 6 months on super high levels of B1 - insomnia and tachycardia became persistent. As a result, it is important that I post the UPDATED regimen.

This page is quite accurate (if just a little messy) about possible signs and symptoms of high levels (including overdose) of vitamins:

http://www.acu-cell.com/bx2.html
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Old 10-27-2015, 04:34 AM #38
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UPDATED VITAMIN REGIMEN - (AFTER SYMPTOMS DEVELOPED TO HIGH B1 for 6 months. It is RARE to develop adverse reactions to water-soluble B-1 as excess is urinated away. But, everyone has their limits. So, please do drink water often and well while on B-1).

TAKE B1 250mg twice a day, 12 hours apart, until levels test in normal range.

WHEN B-1 in normal range, discontinue use, and monitor for increase in symptoms related to B1 deficiency. Then re-evaluate re-commencing B-1. In the case that B-1 is indicated, please see my earlier post (my goodbye post, with a little heart on it) - about 3 or 4 posts before this one.


VITAMIN REGIMEN - WITHOUT B-1 :

(Vitamins B in this regimen are NOT in a B complex. I take them singularly after they discontinued the B complex I was taking).


0900 : Vit A (10,000 iu -- do not take for long periods - liver damage risk and blurry eyes risk) and D3 (1000iu; check your brand is reputable, big discrepancies exist with D, especially with D3); Calcium (600mg - TAKE with full cup of water. Keep in ratio of 1:1 with magnesium up ratio of 2:1! and do not exceed 2:1 or Magnesium will drop, possibly causing tachycardia and paresthesia) -Take all with food.

1000 : B3 (250mg - careful with B3, as it will bring on some dire symptoms and signs if high use is continued for a long time, some people have needed hospital treatment as a result; constantly monitor levels in blood) -- Take with Food.

1100 : Magnesium (300 mg - with food to avoid diarrhea and upset stomach)

1400 : E (500iu) and Zinc (125mg as amino chelate; do not take for prolonged time) -- Take with Food.

1500 : Calcium (300mg - half a 600mg pill -- TAKE with full cup of water).

1600 : B5 (250mg) B6 (100mg maximum - do not exceed this in a day!) Magnesium (300mg) -- Take with Food. *These Bs are a vital step in the regimen*

1900 : B12 (B12 2000mcg TAKE ON EMPTY STOMACH!) You may need B12 oral or shots for life. Check your levels and determine the best course for you. However, as a general rule, we use this formula, based on research from 2005, 2008, etc: 2000mcg (micrograms) for first month or two, then reduce to 1000mcg oral daily for up to two years. If symptoms increase, return to 2000mcg for a month at a time before reducing to 1000mcg). This is the most important vitamin, to which every other element in the regimen is hinged.

2000 : B3 (250mg, see earlier warning in this regimen) -- Take with Food.

2100 : Magnesium (300mg), B9 (folate, if indicated - be careful with this one, too, can lead to anemia, irreversible neurological damage, higher heart disease risk, lung and prostate cancer risk: most cases at doses of 5000mcg and above. Limit it to 400mcg to 500mcg once daily for a month, rechecking levels. IMPORTANT: B9 will mask B12 deficiency! When in neuro trouble, most people will reach for the B complex, which contains B9, and will never see they have a B12 deficiency. This is why B12 deficiency seems to be a missing factor in most treatment plans for neuro disease! AND B12 is not available in high enough doses in ANY B complex (multivitamin) formula to correct deep deficiency as is present in cases of excess alcohol consumption) -- Take with Food.

You may choose to start your day with B12 on empty stomach, or with the B5 and B6 - just maintain the order, whatever you decide to do.

You can check symptoms of too much and too little of any vitamin here:

http://www.acu-cell.com/bx2.html

AND

http://www.acu-cell.com/nico2.html#b12

Last edited by Dubinin; 10-27-2015 at 09:33 AM.
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Old 11-18-2015, 06:31 AM #39
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Attention Absolutely vital: Take b12 with folate!

B12 Therapy IMPORTANT NOTES:

INTENDED FOR: Those of you whose problems are caused by B12 deficiency (as mine are/were - symptoms of B12 macrocytic anemia and PERIPHERAL NEUROPATHY - including insomnia, tachycardia, neurogenic atrophy of muscles and/or muscular atrophy, myopathy; general weakness, paleness of nail beds; dyspnea (shortness of breath) on simple tasks - even such as holding breath while drinking, paleness or very vague pale tinge to skin tone; seborrheic dermatitis, paresthesias galore. Both neurological deficit and anemia can cause similar problems - it is always best to consult a competent physician).

VITAL INFORMATION: Your regimen for treatment of B12 deficiency will include a daily dose of B12 oral up to 2000mcg. This will very quickly lower your B9, folate, reserves. B12 and B9 must be taken together. (In some studies this has been shown to increase cancer cell division rates - so seek medical advice if you may be genetically at higher cancer risk, or environmentally prone to agents that promote cancer cell growth rates - eg., gasolene, diesel, petrochemical exposure.

NB: A 1000mcg dose of B12 oral daily will reduce your Potassium reserves in 3 days.

It is important to note the following interrelations between nutrients:

B12 must be partnered with B9 in a supportive ratio (or the higher corrective ratio if B9 deficiency anemia has commenced). High dose B12 also greatly enhances need for potassium intake. Erstwhile, B9 will markedly increase need for Zinc and Magnesium. AND Calcium must stay in the correct ration with Magnesium (do not exceed a ratio of 2:1 of calcium : Magnesium - and include dietary intake in your calculations).

CAUTION: Long term Folate/Folic Acid (B9) use is not advised. In extreme cases it can cause kidney damage and 'excite' liver dysfunction making liver symptoms more pronounced. Proceed with EXTREME CAUTION. Main symptom to watch for - loss of appetite.

Folate is the natural form of B9 and Folic Acid is the synthetic form. Most cautions surround heightened cancer risk when taking high dosage Folic Acid, especially in the presence of B12. However the natural variety of B9 Folate in high doses is likewise not advised.

Long term zinc use is also highly discouraged, and can lower copper levels, as can high calcium and low potassium and low sodium - proceed with EXTREME CAUTION.

Add a touch of salt to your potatoes - sodium must be in appropriate ratio with potassium.

It is also possible to overdose on calcium and magnesium - so, once again, proceed with EXTREME CAUTION.



MY PERSONAL REGIMEN - may be used alone or in conjunction with above:

MY person regimen for staving off B9 Folate deficiency anemia is to proceed as follows (your regimen may differ, depending on your physician's advice).

Daily:

B12 2000mcg (oral, take on empty stomach,one hour BEFORE food, in one hit. Do not divide dosage). Do this for 10 weeks. Then reduce dosage by half.

4 times a day: 750mcg of B9 oral. Do not exceed 3mg (3000mcg) in any 24 hour period - please keep a journal/log of your medication. Continue until symptoms of B9 Folate deficiency are gone, then reduce as follows:

500mcg * 2 times a day
250mcg * 3 times a day
500mcg * 1 per day
250mcg * 1 per day
Discontinue - and take in B9 from dietary sources only.

Magnesium:
250mg
* 3 times a day

Zinc:
125mg
* 1 per day

Potassium:
250mg
* 1 per day

Calcium:
300mg
* 3 times a day (Take with full glass of (purified) water)

Increase dietary copper sources:

The best dietary sources include seafood (especially shellfish), organ meats (e.g., liver), whole grains, legumes (e.g., beans and lentils) and chocolate. Nuts, including peanuts and pecans, are especially rich in copper, as are grains such as wheat and rye, and several fruits including lemons and raisins.

Muscle Atrophy note:

In cases where muscles are affected (atrophy, pump is not so full, or muscles feel flabby or "loose" - use l-carnitine, or take a good quality protein supplement. This should halt progression of atrophy (even in cancerous cachexia). Or drink a protein shake three times a day to boost essential amino acids. Taking BCAAs 4 times daily may also help prevent further muscle mass destruction.

Inositol Note:

Inositol in my experience has had no significant effect, for better or worse. Therefore, what is the point?

Please email me at dubinin2@hush.com for any clarification.
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Old 11-23-2015, 07:17 AM #40
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Exclamation Adjusted dosage after four days

My personal requirements have changed again after four to five days.

If B12 deficiency has been an issue, high dosage will drive down B9 levels and give you a new form of anemia or symptoms will seem to return. The symptoms will also return if B9 is too high -

B12 must be taken with B9 --

AND they must be in correct balance.

You will need higher B9 if it has been depleted by HIGH DOSAGE B12.

Once back on track, B12 @ 2000mcg must be paired with 400mcg of B9.

Your personal requirements may differ from mine. This is the point of blood tests.

Keep taking zinc, potassium, calcium, mangesium.

I am currently doing:

B12: 2000mcg (on empty stomach, wait an hour for food)
B9: 500mcg
Zn - 25mg once daily
Mg - 550mg once daily
Ca - 500mg/ once daily
K - 250mg once daily

All done! Stay on this, monitoring for reduction and an end to symptoms and signs such as: tachy, insomnia, skin pallor, breathlessness and, muscle tone

When B12 and B9 become unstable, the effects ARE peripheral neuropathy and all the signs and symptoms mentioned. If oral B12 does not help effectively, go for the shots immediately. They will do bloods - tell them to also test MMA (methylmalonic acid level) IF you have been taking B9.

Failure to correct B12 levels when signs of paresthesia (tingling, numbness etc) have persisted for months WILL mean the condition becomes irreversible.

...So, finally, I answered my own question asked months ago.

I hope this helps anyone avoid messing their nerves up to the point of being crippled or constantly needing Beta Blockers.

IFF you have a history of excess alcohol intake, they will all jump to the B1 conclusion. This is dangerous. ALCOHOL AFFECTS AND DEPLETES ALL B VITAMINS. B1, B6 and B12 are ALL affected. Wasting time dealing with B1 and B9 in isolation will prolong B12 deficiency anemia and B12 deficiency peripheral neuropathy. The NEUROLOGICAL EFFECTS AFTER MONTHS WILL BE IRREVERSIBLE.

Many doctors do not even understand fully the effects and outcomes of B levels that are out of balance or depleted. It is like the B vitamin family is the final friggin frontier or something. So use your wits - and choose a doctor who understands this serious matter. Your future health and nerve condition depend on choosing the right doctor, who will do whatever is necessary to understand exactly the implications of your B deficiency. A schilling test and other such tests may be needed to show how well you are absorbing B vitamins. The correct therapy depends on you personally, and must be geared by a competent professional to suit you as an individual.

With blessings and peace -

Dubinin.
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