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Old 02-05-2016, 04:10 PM #1
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Default When or should family draw back

I have an alcoholic brother in law who has refused help from all directions. He holds down a job but drinks VERY heavily. We have asked for help from his work welfare, support groups and mental health teams. ALL state that he needs to realise he has a problem. We are talking 30+ years here.

He is now in debt and borrowing on the strength of his wage. Guys want their money back I am sure as he come here asking for loans.

Until last week we supported him by buying some food every week, heating oil, beds etc etc etc.

He has been aggressive before and last week we had to call for police assistance as he tried to kick our home door in. Frightening and so disappointing as we thought we were getting somewhere. In fact we were trying to get him into some supported housing. In fact he is now convinced we are trying to get him out of the way or locked up. We cannot reason with him drunk or sober and the stress this is causing to us and other family is crazy.

He needed a letter from his medical practitioner to help with housing so he went. She spoke to him to offer yet again some help and yet again he refused saying there was absolutely nothing wrong with him. We were told by the practitioner that she could do nothing until he realised his condition. In fact she said it can have a negative effect, driving him further into "a very dark place" He needs to find that there are consequences for his actions.

His so called friends are happy to help him drink his money and he refuses to engage with anyone who raises their concerns for his welfare.

Well here we are a week on from crisis and living on the edge of our nerves waiting for his return.

Question. DO WE WITHDRAW FROM HIS LIFE AND HIM FROM OURS.

We are wrecked with guilt but also know we have been manipulated in every way.

Thanks
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Old 02-05-2016, 05:57 PM #2
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Hi waterwillow

I think that you are in a very hard position.

I agree with what you have been told - your brother first needs to choose to accept that he has a problem, which is something that nobody can force him to do.

This is not about me but once I had made that difficult choice I got great support from my friends and family members. With their help and my work I have been sober for a number of years, with some ups and downs along the way of course.

Other members of this community may have more wisdom to offer but I would be inclined to tell him firmly that he needs to make that choice, if he does you will support him and that you will not lend him any money.

With care.
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Old 02-05-2016, 06:16 PM #3
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If he continues to be aggressive , a restraining order might be needed..
If he gets locked up, he might be more inclined to get help that way..court ordered..

I would not give him anything that enables him to continue this downward path.

Is he driving in that condition also?

Yes, withdraw until there is some lasting positive changes shown.

Could he be bi polar or depressed or in pain?
He might be self medicating with the booze. A physical & mental work up might be a good thing if you think one or both might apply.
He may or may not want to do that though.

Our sister site may have more in depth info -
http://psychcentral.com/disorders/addictions/
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Old 02-05-2016, 06:37 PM #4
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Thanks Kiwi and Jamar. There is a history of Paranoid Schizophrenia in his family. Drink really exacerbates this. He takes no meds and will not go for any assessments.

I am a little happier that you guys feel we are doing the right thing. Deep down he knows we were always there picking him up, lets hope he can see that he needs to make even a small step to help himself. The extended family would be there for him but threatening our safety and at times our lives, well I have to draw a line in the sand.

He is at risk presently of loosing his job after 30 years, they have been very understanding but they can no longer accept him arriving smelling of alcohol.

Hey Jamar, you did good and now your helping others. Take the credit where it's due.

A deep thanks
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Old 02-05-2016, 06:59 PM #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waterwillow View Post
Thanks Kiwi and Jamar. There is a history of Paranoid Schizophrenia in his family. Drink really exacerbates this. He takes no meds and will not go for any assessments.

I am a little happier that you guys feel we are doing the right thing. Deep down he knows we were always there picking him up, lets hope he can see that he needs to make even a small step to help himself. The extended family would be there for him but threatening our safety and at times our lives, well I have to draw a line in the sand.

He is at risk presently of loosing his job after 30 years, they have been very understanding but they can no longer accept him arriving smelling of alcohol.

Hey Jamar, you did good and now your helping others. Take the credit where it's due.

A deep thanks
Dear Waterwillow,
Such a difficult position when you are trying to love and support a family member in dire need of help.

I agree, you have no choice but to withdraw from his life before he hurts someone in the family, himself or a stranger.
He needs to hit rock bottom and not be enabled by those around him, despite the enabling being done from a place of caring.

Have dealt with similar situations, sometimes withdrawing means they get arrested and spending time in jail for their behavior and obviously, a forced and very painful withdrawal from alcohol. Some people have to hit absolute rock bottom before they wake up and change. 30 yrs of this behavior is not something you can turn around overnight, obviously but his painful withdrawal will give him the wake up call that 30 yrs has not. I know it sounds cruel but the fact he is still alive from 30 years of heavy drinking is incredible. I am guessing his liver is not in very good shape.

I commend you for hanging in with him this long. You are obviously a very caring person.
In the long run, hopefully, he will realize you withdrew out of concern.

Wishing you the best in dealing with this painful situation.
My best.
Diandra
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Old 02-05-2016, 08:30 PM #6
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Dear WaterWillow

As hard as it is and as harsh as it sounds you are doing a sensible thing for your brother in law. Over 30+ years your BIL has amassed great skill to lie, cheat and manipulate all in order to get alcohol. He is probably not a horrible person and he is still family, but to best aid him realise the consequences of his choices withdrawal of familial support will cease the enabling and he will have to find his own way to help and support. It is heartbreakingly hard and you will feel racked with guilt but you have others to think of as well. You have your immediate family and safety to consider.

I attend weekly carer group sessions for alcoholics and drug addicts (most weeks I get there) every week we are told to stop enabling the person we are caring for. We are told never to put ourselves in danger or leave ourselves open to danger. That means driving them to appointments only when they are sober or straight, never give them money directly and don't pay their bills out of your own money, use theirs. If you don't have access to their money then the bill or whatever they want/need purchasing can't be done and they suffer the consequences. You could try telling him you will always support him in efforts to recover from alcoholism, but you will no longer stand by and support him to drink.

Supposedly an alcoholic or drug addict has to reach their own rock bottom before they will reach out for help. Everyone's rock bottom is different. Often what we as sober individuals consider rock bottom and terrible, they will brush off again and again. No one can predict what or when they will realise the harm they are causing themselves or others.

I wish you safety and peace WaterWillow I know only to well the choices you are facing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by waterwillow View Post
I have an alcoholic brother in law who has refused help from all directions. He holds down a job but drinks VERY heavily. We have asked for help from his work welfare, support groups and mental health teams. ALL state that he needs to realise he has a problem. We are talking 30+ years here.

Until last week we supported him by buying some food every week, heating oil, beds etc etc etc.

He has been aggressive before and last week we had to call for police assistance as he tried to kick our home door in. In fact we were trying to get him into some supported housing. We cannot reason with him drunk or sober and the stress this is causing to us and other family is crazy.

He needed a letter from his medical practitioner to help with housing so he went. She spoke to him to offer yet again some help and yet again he refused saying there was absolutely nothing wrong with him. We were told by the practitioner that she could do nothing until he realised his condition. In fact she said it can have a negative effect, driving him further into "a very dark place" He needs to find that there are consequences for his actions.

His so called friends are happy to help him drink his money and he refuses to engage with anyone who raises their concerns for his welfare. Well here we are a week on from crisis and living on the edge of our nerves waiting for his return.

Question. DO WE WITHDRAW FROM HIS LIFE AND HIM FROM OURS.

We are wrecked with guilt but also know we have been manipulated in every way.

Thanks
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Last edited by PamelaJune; 02-06-2016 at 05:56 AM.
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Old 02-06-2016, 07:57 AM #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diandra View Post
Dear Waterwillow,
Such a difficult position when you are trying to love and support a family member in dire need of help.

I agree, you have no choice but to withdraw from his life before he hurts someone in the family, himself or a stranger.
He needs to hit rock bottom and not be enabled by those around him, despite the enabling being done from a place of caring.

Have dealt with similar situations, sometimes withdrawing means they get arrested and spending time in jail for their behavior and obviously, a forced and very painful withdrawal from alcohol. Some people have to hit absolute rock bottom before they wake up and change. 30 yrs of this behavior is not something you can turn around overnight, obviously but his painful withdrawal will give him the wake up call that 30 yrs has not. I know it sounds cruel but the fact he is still alive from 30 years of heavy drinking is incredible. I am guessing his liver is not in very good shape.

I commend you for hanging in with him this long. You are obviously a very caring person.
In the long run, hopefully, he will realize you withdrew out of concern.

Wishing you the best in dealing with this painful situation.
My best.
Diandra
Thanks Diandra, no one wants to watch someones life fall apart but neither do I want the fallout from his condition wrecking our own.
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Old 02-06-2016, 08:02 AM #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PamelaJune View Post
Dear WaterWillow

As hard as it is and as harsh as it sounds you are doing a sensible thing for your brother in law. Over 30+ years your BIL has amassed great skill to lie, cheat and manipulate all in order to get alcohol. He is probably not a horrible person and he is still family, but to best aid him realise the consequences of his choices withdrawal of familial support will cease the enabling and he will have to find his own way to help and support. It is heartbreakingly hard and you will feel racked with guilt but you have others to think of as well. You have your immediate family and safety to consider.

I attend weekly carer group sessions for alcoholics and drug addicts (most weeks I get there) every week we are told to stop enabling the person we are caring for. We are told never to put ourselves in danger or leave ourselves open to danger. That means driving them to appointments only when they are sober or straight, never give them money directly and don't pay their bills out of your own money, use theirs. If you don't have access to their money then the bill or whatever they want/need purchasing can't be done and they suffer the consequences. You could try telling him you will always support him in efforts to recover from alcoholism, but you will no longer stand by and support him to drink.

Supposedly an alcoholic or drug addict has to reach their own rock bottom before they will reach out for help. Everyone's rock bottom is different. Often what we as sober individuals consider rock bottom and terrible, they will brush off again and again. No one can predict what or when they will realise the harm they are causing themselves or others.

I wish you safety and peace WaterWillow I know only to well the choices you are facing.
Thanks Pamela, it sounds like you have been there and got the T Shirt. My wife had to attend counselling last year through the stress and anxiety.

Take care and we wish you well for your future.
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Old 02-07-2016, 08:12 PM #9
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Deja vu.

Yes, stop enabling him and let him hit his own rock bottom. He may lose his job, he may end up in jail, but he will NOT stop dragging you down until you let go.

Walk away, but be there when his rock bottom is the foundation on which he rebuilds his life.
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Old 02-08-2016, 11:59 AM #10
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Originally Posted by Icehouse View Post
Deja vu.

Yes, stop enabling him and let him hit his own rock bottom. He may lose his job, he may end up in jail, but he will NOT stop dragging you down until you let go.

Walk away, but be there when his rock bottom is the foundation on which he rebuilds his life.
Thanks Icehouse, it seems to be a unanimous view that my BIL needs to virtually sink or swim at this stage.

We have friends and acquaintances who still a let us know how and what he is doing. Some agree with the action we are taking but a few think privately we could do more. What that would be I just don't know

In any case there have been no incidents involving us this week. Fingers crossed.

Thanks everyone and good luck in your own journey.
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