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Old 01-11-2022, 02:43 AM #1
damlays@gmail.com damlays@gmail.com is offline
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Default Can Alcoholic Neuropathy turn back completely to the beginning with just 2 beers?

I had severe and generalized Alcoholic Neuropathy symptoms (as Peripheral and Autonomic neuropathy) 2 years ago.

At that time I immediately 100% stopped alcohol, started wide range of Vitamin and Anti-Oxidants supports (including 1200 mg Alpha Lipoic Acid/day) for more than 1 year.

Symptoms persisted in first year and after that gradually disappeared. In last 6 months they were nearly all disappeared.

By this encouragement in last day I made a mistake! (very stupid of me)!
I miss beer too much and I said JUST for ONE TIME if I remember the taste of beer it may not effect bad on me very much. And I drank JUST 2 cans of Beer.

First day I didn't see any bad result, second day some Autonomic Symptoms (related with Vagal Neuropathy like Dispne, a bit Tachycardia) came back. Third day it increased a lot and it is severe like in the beginning like 2 years ago.

Now I am worrying too much. With JUST 2 BEER CANS (5% alcohol) can everything turn back to the beginning?? Can some irreversible damage happen with this amount of alcohol because it is a repeating event??

Or is this just small and first reaction damage, and in next period (days, weeks or few months) it can be recovered again (as it was recovered before)?
...and if I will not try any alcohol again (god knows I will NEVER EVER try again after this experience) I can be symptomless again?

Is there anybody who can know and say something on this point please?
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Old 01-12-2022, 05:15 AM #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by damlays@gmail.com View Post
I had severe and generalized Alcoholic Neuropathy symptoms (as Peripheral and Autonomic neuropathy) 2 years ago.

At that time I immediately 100% stopped alcohol, started wide range of Vitamin and Anti-Oxidants supports (including 1200 mg Alpha Lipoic Acid/day) for more than 1 year.

Symptoms persisted in first year and after that gradually disappeared. In last 6 months they were nearly all disappeared.

By this encouragement in last day I made a mistake! (very stupid of me)!
I miss beer too much and I said JUST for ONE TIME if I remember the taste of beer it may not effect bad on me very much. And I drank JUST 2 cans of Beer.

First day I didn't see any bad result, second day some Autonomic Symptoms (related with Vagal Neuropathy like Dispne, a bit Tachycardia) came back. Third day it increased a lot and it is severe like in the beginning like 2 years ago.

Now I am worrying too much. With JUST 2 BEER CANS (5% alcohol) can everything turn back to the beginning?? Can some irreversible damage happen with this amount of alcohol because it is a repeating event??

Or is this just small and first reaction damage, and in next period (days, weeks or few months) it can be recovered again (as it was recovered before)?
...and if I will not try any alcohol again (god knows I will NEVER EVER try again after this experience) I can be symptomless again?

Is there anybody who can know and say something on this point please?
Hey Damlays,

I am so sorry to hear of the return of your symptoms. It seems so cruel that a couple of beers can cause these changes.

I have a history of alcohol induced PN and I too had setbacks on the way to recovery but eventually I made more or less a full recovery. At that point I became over confident and drank in small amounts again without any symptoms. But symptoms did come back and I abstained again and the good news is they have gone away again.

So I believe you have the potential to once more make a full recovery. Just go back to what you did before that worked. Maybe you can outline what you did and people can add suggestions to enhance the recovery process.

This is my theory on what happened to me. It's only a theory and if people can add to it or tell me where I'm wrong, I would would welcome a better understanding. It may apply to you, it may not.

I believe that alcohol damages the myelin sheath that covers nerves. Ceasing alcohol allows the nerves to regenerate and this process starts about a month after cessation. As the myelin sheath regenerates the symptoms subside. The longer the period of alcohol abstention the greater the nerve regeneration. Factors like age, diet, lifestyle, supplements and wellbeing all influence speed and quality of nerve regeneration. It is the quality of nerve regeneration that is important. I think for you your nerve regeneration was sufficient to stop symptoms but not sufficient to withstand alcohol.

What was your protocol that lead to your first recovery?

Let's see if we and any interested parties can pool resources to optimize your return to health.

Best wishes,

Atty
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"Thanks for this!" says:
ajwinpain (01-15-2022), damlays@gmail.com (01-12-2022)
Old 01-12-2022, 06:54 AM #3
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Hi Atticus... thank you very much for your reply.. reading your experience and good news gave me a motivation hence I was feeling so depressed because of destroying what I did in last 2 years very difficultly, just in one Saturday night with 2 cans 330ml beer which have only %5 alcohol..

In this point our stories have similarity as I also became over confident with my no-symptom state and drank this small amount of alcohol. Your theory makes sense about remyelination, and corresponding with our experience about great support of Alpha Lipoic Acid, the molecule which has its main function as protecting myelins of neurons.

Now because my symptoms returned to most severe days as in the beginning 2 years ago, of course I had to turn back to my same protocol, life and diet style

Mainly I am taking
all Vitamin B kinds + Centrum Multi Vitamin + Vitamin E
+ Alpha Lipoic Acid 1200mg/day
+ Rutin
+ N-acetylcysteine (NAC)
+ Omega 3
+ Nucleo C.M.P Forte

Eating carbohydrates is increasing oxidative stress and causes immediately (just 10-15 minutes after eating) exploding the symptoms. So I am making a strict ketogenic diet (keto-diet)

Many kind of oils, lipids, especially animal based and butters margarine are also increasing oxidative stress and symptoms as well immediately after eating them. I can only use real and PURE Olive Oil.

If possible supports as much as I can find chance and do.

By following this program in my first first year I could manage and decrease my symptoms to a level as minimum as possible and finally reached to some kind of recovery with no-symptom situation. Now I will do the same. This is the best and the ONLY way what I can do already.


As I told, your experience gave me a new hope about I can do it for the second time. Can I ask your recovery period timings as
- How long did it take your first recovery (from starting your protocol to reaching to no-symptom situation), and
- How long did it take your second recovery?
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Old 01-13-2022, 11:09 PM #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Atticus View Post
At that point I became over confident and drank in small amounts again without any symptoms. But symptoms did come back

By the way, additionally, can I ask how long & how much did you drink before the symptoms started for the second time?
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Old 01-14-2022, 04:21 AM #5
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Hey Damlays,

It took roughly 4.5 to 5 months initially for me to return to normal the first time. I cannot be as specific the second time because I have adopted the attitude of just getting on with life and making the best of things. I was able to drink small amounts on several occasions, I suppose I became over confident. If I had to say a timescale maybe 3 months. It's strange that the symptoms become worse after cessation before they become better. I'm not sure I've ever been completely symptom free. If I become aware of my body thing is tingling here and there. But I choose, as I say, to ignore it.

What is Nucleo C.M.P Forte? It's not available in the UK. Do you have it on prescription? Where do you get it and what does it do?

Are you taking Vitamin B12 in addition to multi B ? In addition I would consider Benfotiamine the fat soluble version of B1. It means we can store it in our livers rather than have it pass through our body in our urine. Something else I would consider is Magnesium Threonate. Magnesium is great for nerve healing and symptom relief.

I find it extraordinary that a carb meal can cause you such pain. I am struggling to get my head round the mechanism for that. I am aware that high glucose levels in the blood are toxic for nerves. This is the basis of diabetic neuropathy. Carbs break down into glucose that can damage the small blood vessels that supply the nerves causing nerve damage and neuropathic symptoms. But this is a slow process. I have read that high glucose levels cause the nerves to swell cutting off blood supply to the nerves and pain however not from a reputable source.

Oxidative stress takes us to the world of free radicals and anti oxidants. I can't imagine that this would be the cause of your post meal pain as oxidative stress takes place with all kinds of foods and activities. Have you had this diagnosed or have you arrived at this conclusion yourself? If you have further reading links I would love to see.

Anti oxidants as I'm sure you know are essential to a healthy diet. The foods with the highest concentrations of anti oxidants are Amla. Are you familiar with this? I have this in powdered form and also Triphala Powder. I add it to my porridge and soups. Please note it is an acquired taste! Disguise it with something nice! A wide range of fruit and vegetables, especially green leafy and cruciferous vegetables and dark berries are also essentials. Green Tea and Hibiscus tea are also loaded with anti oxidants.

I hope you're making progress and I hope this helps. Please let me know your thoughts and about the Nucleo C.M.P Forte.

Best wishes,

Atty
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Old 01-15-2022, 12:41 AM #6
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(At first time I wrote this reply I shared with you many links but this website didn't allow me to post links because my posts were not enough. So I deleted all and wrote LiNK LiNK in their place. Maybe later I can post or find another way to share.. Now I can only post my text without my links.)


Hi Atticus,


Quote:
Originally Posted by Atticus View Post
What is Nucleo C.M.P Forte?
It is a combination with
Cytidine-5′-disodium monophosphate &
Uridine-5′-trisodium triphosphate

It is an external source of pyrimidine nucleotides (PN) necessary for reparation of a nerve tissue, is widely used in the treatment of peripheral neuropathy.


LiNK LiNK LiNK LiNK 1



I am originally from Europe, but currently living in South East Asia as an expat because of my business. In the pharmacies it is very easy to find here w/o Rx.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Atticus View Post
Are you taking Vitamin B12 in addition to multi B ? In addition I would consider Benfotiamine the fat soluble version of B1. It means we can store it in our livers rather than have it pass through our body in our urine
Yes I am taking both B12 and Benfotiamine. As I know because of Benfotiamine is fat soluble bioavailability is much more better than B1. But I didn't read anything about it is stored in liver. I will be glad if you share a link about that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Atticus View Post
Magnesium Threonate
I am using ordinary Magnesium support instead of Magnesium Threonate. As I know the only advantage of Magnesium Threonate is easy passing Blood Brain Barrier (BBB), so it is good for treatment of Central Nervous System issues. But my case is about sensory and autonomic peripheral nervous system, I didn't think I need this advantange. Am I wrong?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Atticus View Post
I find it extraordinary that a carb meal can cause you such pain.
Yes it is very interesting that this subject didn't enter to the medical books as a well-known fact. When I said to Neurology Specialists they could not find a firm and exact explanation about it also.

But this is a FACT.. and when I search deeper I saw one by one individual events and medical articles which can be combined together and turned into a meaningful picture, additionally I found some other people who are exactly facing with the same situation like me.

First of all this is not about high blood glucose. For explaining this fact the main KEYWORD is "Neuroinflammation" which describes a micro inflammation of neurons in cellular level that disturbs neurons itself and their myelins.

2 years ago I read many medical articles and patient experiences about it (I saved my links but I cannot find right now, if I find I can share deeper info). This can be about 2 factors (one of them or both together)
- The things we eat increases neuroinflammation
- The things we eat increases Insulin, high insulin itself is another factor which directly disturbs the neurons

When I read more I discovered that I am not alone in this thing. Some other people also have exactly same issue with me, and they have to avoid from some type of foods because those food increase their symptoms just 10-15 minutes after eating.

For example I found this page, patients are telling exactly same situation which I had and explaining the reason as well

LiNK LiNK LiNK LiNK 2

And there is a very well known thing which you can find a lot of information on the net about it: Ketogenic Diet (or Keto-Diet)


Keto-diet is done exactly for this purpose, for decreasing the cellular base inflammation, because especially glucose and some others are increasing this inflammation (and neuroinflammation as well)

So how I protected myself from symptoms and healed myself, the MAIN answer for this is: "I always continued an Anti-Inflammatory Ketogenic Eating".

PS.
I couldn't find my main links yet but just by searching now I found some -Partially- related articles

LiNK LiNK LiNK LiNK 3

Quote:
Originally Posted by Atticus View Post
The foods with the highest concentrations of anti oxidants are Amla
Because of my keto-diet I cannot eat many fruits also because fructose is definitively number one cause which is immediately increasing my symptoms.

I made anti-oxidant therapy by taking ALA, NAC, Omega III and Rutin.

You asked the effect of Nucleo C.M.P Forte. Actually I am taking all these pills but I cannot measure their direct effect coming of them immediately, so it is very hard to say which one is working which one is not working, or which one is how much working. I am blind about that, the only thing I can depend is the medical articles which I read.

But only about one thing I can observe directly and be sure is Ketogenic diet makes me better (related with that 2 reasons I wrote above) and whenever I damage my strict keto-diet my symptoms highly exacerbate immediately.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Atticus View Post
I hope you're making progress and I hope this helps.
Thank you very much. I still cannot believe after very difficultly recovery in 2 years, how I immediately turned back exactly to the beginning just in 1 day with only 2 beers. The people who is reading this post should take this lesson and NEVER EVER try alcohol again in their life after recovery!
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Old 01-17-2022, 02:06 AM #7
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Hey Damlays,

Thanks for your reply. First of all I want to say that it really is terrible that such a simple pleasure as a couple of beers could result in such awful symptoms. It really is, on several levels, an awful experience and having lived it, in some sense myself, I sympathize with you.

Thanks for the information about C.M.P Forte.

Yes I am taking both B12 and Benfotiamine. As I know because of Benfotiamine is fat soluble bioavailability is much more better than B1. But I didn't read anything about it is stored in liver. I will be glad if you share a link about that.

I can't find any links that say that. I have got it wrong. However I'm sure I read it somewhere. Maybe I assumed because it was fat soluble it could be stored. My mistake, sorry. Nevertheless, it is the superior form of Thiamine in terms of bioavailability and I'm glad you're taking it.

I am using ordinary Magnesium support instead of Magnesium Threonate. As I know the only advantage of Magnesium Threonate is easy passing Blood Brain Barrier (BBB), so it is good for treatment of Central Nervous System issues. But my case is about sensory and autonomic peripheral nervous system, I didn't think I need this advantange. Am I wrong?


No I don't think you're wrong. However I'm not sure its a good idea to separate the CNS and the PNS and Threonate as you say crosses the BBB. If it also protects my CNS then all the better. I also believe Threonate is the best form because of it's superior bioavailability and also its a molecule that helps with sleep.

I am very much interested in seeing your links. Once you have reached 10 posts you can do this. I am very much interested in the role of oxidative stress in your PN also the influence of diet.

Have you looked at Berberine. I discovered it from the "longevity community." I take it before meals. It has an action similar to metformin the diabetic medication. I wonder if it would help you and help alleviate post meal symptoms.

Berberine: A Powerful Supplement With Many Benefits

http://research.shahed.ac.ir/WSR/Sit...1093616358.pdf

This is another paper I think you'd be interested in. The role of dietary nutrients in PN Regeneration. It talks about ketogenic diets amongst other things.

The Role of Dietary Nutrients in Peripheral Nerve Regeneration

Hoping you're seeing some improvements,

Best wishes,

Atty
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Old 01-19-2022, 05:05 PM #8
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Quote:
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Hey Damlays,

Hoping you're seeing some improvements,

Atty
Thank you.. I will check the links you sent.

And I will post again here my links when I become able to post links.

Hope to see you again.
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Old 08-01-2022, 07:43 AM #9
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Default How is your progress?

How is your progress? Did you recover a little bit at least? I myself plan to drink a cup of wine on my next birthday as my doctor told me I would be able to drink a little bit occasionally, but am too scared to ruin all the work I have done.
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Old 08-18-2022, 11:12 AM #10
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jean2399, a number of people I've known have been helped by Alcoholics Anonymous, which might be available where you are. Some people dislike AA's approach but many find it useful.

AA's position has always been that alcohol is like a poison to an alcoholic, and the recovering alcoholic should just learn to avoid any drinking.

Alcohol Abstinence: Can I Be in AA and Still Drink?
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