I wish I could help too. I think only a person who has had experience with things like this, can share their experience and the wisdom they acquired.

When people don't have experience with this, offering help is just very difficult and iffy.

Is there a Gambler's Anon group near you? Have you tried talking to other gamblers who have been there done that?

I am so sorry you have to go thru this. It sounds agonizing.

Hi All!!!

Thanks SO much for having my back.

Let me be honest. When a parent goes through this FOR 7 YEARS, and yes, I've done the gammanon thing. When he first left home, began the getting on buses and getting off buses so he could be housed, and maxed out all his credit cards and went to casinos, etc. etc. etc AD NAUSEUM!!!, Alan and I went to our first Gammanon meeting.

You see, YEARS AGO, we did the Tough Love meetings (so we had already learned not to enable). We took him to the Scared Straight program at Rahway prison (just imagine being surrounded by convicted killers inside this cage thing, with all these juvenile delinquents being put on the stage so these convicted killers (who turned out to be very sweet indeed), well, they have the kids up on the stage, and the convicted killers start screaming at them telling them that THEY ARE GOING TO WIND UP IN THAT PRISON UNLESS THEY STRAIGHTEN OUT".

That's when you see the kids start crying because they walked in so high and mighty and walked out all deflated.

And while this is going on, imagine prison gards (outside of the cage), walking around with what looked like AK 47 rifles (I wouldn't know a prison rifle from a machine gun). Yes, we did ALL OF THESE THINGS.

And we did the counseling. Oh, the counseling. We did it ALL!!!

And he changed. At the age of 16 through 20, there were no more incidents. He graduated high school, and went to college on a full scholarship. He designed graphics and websites and he told us he was going to game design school in Arizona.

That never happened. But when you have one child and he is so promising, and you never saw him gamble, then how does one know what that child will end up doing.

Certainly not getting on and off buses, and calling 911 so they could HOUSE HIM FOR THE NIGHT.

He once told me that he was picked up by firemen once (this was in Arizona), and the guy told him "you want to be taken care of? go to California, they'll house you". So he did.

This has been a parent's nightmare. The gambling, (I had no idea what the heck this meant because the only gambling I ever did was the occasional poker game on Christmas with my family (years ago).

Whether this is genetic, or has to do with extrernal environmental triggers, or whatever it is that makes him live in a virtual reality world such as Second Life, make money in that world, and sell the virtual money on other websites (people actually pay REAL money, to buy FAKE money (called Linden dollars), so they can go into Second Life and live out fantasies....

Well, I can't pretend to understand this, but it is what it is.

But when a 27 year old person who has never worked, and knows that his dad is ill, and has NEVER called him and asked about him, (and believe me, I've watched many episodes of INTERVENTION, and I've watched EVERY episode of The Cleaner with Benjamin Bratt....I've learned how the brain works ,,,,we have to face up to our addictions and either let them destroy us (without caring who else it destroys), or we get help.

I have tried for YEARS to get him the help he so desperately needs, but does not want.

When I posted my problem on this board, I needed to have my feelings and actions validated. There is no one I can tell this to. My family is so uncomfortable with what he did, they haven't asked about him in 6 years. TRUE!!! People who can't deal with stuff, well they DON'T.

So I have learned to deal with it myself and take care of ME, and take care of Alan.

Never in all my life did I ever think that the person I gave birth to 27 years ago, would turn out like this. With no regard for anything but the way gambling makes him feel.

Oh, Alan made a very good point last night. I was talking to him and saying "I wonder how he is going to get the money to go back to California from Las Vegas"

I even said to Alan "I was thinking of sending him the $25 bus fare (I know, BAD STUPID THING), but Alan set me straight and said "you are sending him NOTHING". I said 'thanks for bringing me back to the present".

Then we figured it out.

My son lives in California in a voucher program, and gets housing, food, and is his own payee. He has had to fight to be his own payee (2 times), due to his gambling problem.

If he calls the social worker in California for money, they will revoke his payee status and appoint a company to be his payee.

He doesn't want ANYONE else controlling him.

So he called me up asking for $200 thinking "well, she'll give me $200. I'll go back to the Casino, I'll WIN BIG" and all will be fine.

He was wrong.

Alan just asked me "I wonder how he will get home". I said "he's gone 27 years without ever working a day in his life, and he has an apartment, a computer, a tv, dvd player, dsl line, etc." DON'T WORRY ABOUT HIM, HE'S CREATIVE.

I am thinking that he will probably go knocking on church rectories telling the people that he was mugged and needs to get home. That might work.

Or, if he's done that and there's no one to give him "going home money", that the only thing he CAN do is go to his nearest GA meeting, lie to them, and promise he'll go to GA when he gets back home, thinking that they will give him the money to get the bus home.

I don't know if they would fall for that.

My son is extremely creative, manipulative and controlling.

Too bad he didn't use these gifts to make himself a better person.

Alan is heart broken over this.

Me??? I shall continue to grow my sprouts, eat my veggies, and go for a walk.

I can't let my son or anything negative or toxic BRING ME BACK TO THAT PLACE WHERE I WAS YEARS AGO, when he began this destructive behavior.

The worst was when he was crying suicide (and the first time he did that), Alan and I re-arranged the living room furniture because we thought we would be having people coming over the next day to sit with us while we mourned.

Just imagine going through that.

No, I did this 7 years ago. I'm not moving any more furniture.

I give people (who deal with this and can't say no), well, I give them credit. They do this to be able to live with themselves.

I've LEARNED how to live with myself.

Took 7 years.

Thank you very much for listening and letting me vent.

It was needed.

Melody

I'm sorry to hear you are going through this. Living with a Personality Disorder of any kind is tough, NP's being the toughest!

Here are some well recommended books that I've heard about through another message board, devoted to a specific pd.

The Wizard of OZ and other Narcissists" by Eleanor Payson
Why is it always about you?" by Hotchkiss
Will I Ever Be Good Enough?" by McBride

And 'Fatal Flaws' by Yudofsky

I, personally, have yet to tackle in depth the PD of Narcissism, but was planning a book or two for my summer reads.

I feel these books should be empowering, shine some light on what makes an NP tick, and learn some new communication techniques, that can be used in all manners of relationships.

And 'Look me in the eyes' by Robinson is written by a gentleman with Aspergers, and I've heard decent reviews, as it sheds light into this disorder. From what I understand about Aspergers', if not caught early in life, it can result in a personality disorder of some shape or form. Not catching early was not uncommon, even two decades ago. It's tough to diagnos, even with early intervention....so, I'm not surprised to hear that your son has these two disorders co-morbid with one another.

As far as the suicide threats, I know this is tough. Have you researched borderline personality disorder? There is a new book out there that speaks in laymans terms and helps communications...."The essential family guide to understanding borderline personality disorder"-Kreger. Though your son wasn't dx'd with that, you can learn tips and techniques for dealing with the suicide threats.

One being to set your own personal boundaries. If you threaten around me, I will not hesistate to call the authorities, and follow through. It's not up to you to rescue them from themselves.....

Tough love is tough, and I feel for 'ya! Hang in there!

Hi. And thank you for replying. I have researched every personality disorder on this planet. I did not read, however, that when aspergers is not caught early, that it morphs into a personality disorder. I believe this is what has happened.

We had him in counseling most of his life because of his disruptive behavior in school when he was 6 or so. One therapist told us "he needs to feel loved, so go out and buy him all new clothes". We did. Nothing changed.

Another therapist said "when he has meltdowns, he must know that you will not tolerate it, so you must discipline him with a hairbrush (and never use your hands because hands should only show love).

Well, for some unknown reason, this worked. His dad gave him the spanking of his life when he was 8. I think he had one more spanking after that and he NEVER HAD ANOTHER MELTDOWN TILL HE WAS 15.

I don't believe in corporal punishment, but then again, I never thought I would have a kid that I had to bring to Rahway prison and do the Tough Love meetings with. (But this did indeed happen).

I believe in accountability. He has never been accountable for anything he has done after he moved away home. They have given him EVERYTHING.

He never had to work for a thing. He doesn't believe he has to. He has such self indulgent theories, I will never understand his way of thinking.

As far as the suicide thing, he had done this for years. It's how he gets his way. He knows that they will pick him up and take care of him, and they always have. I think this is appalling and he knows this.

He needs intensive therapy but they can't force him.

After I made my initial post on this board, two days later, a social worker from the hospital in Vegas telephoned me. She introduced herself and I said:

"Hold on please, I know exactly what you are going to say, I have been down this road MANY TIMES". I was polite and I informed her.

She knew I wasn't sending him any money.

Yesterday he emailed me saying "Just wanted you to know that I am home and that a friend in Second Life is wiring me $40 to cover me for the month, and thank god that I have friends in Second Life".

I asked him "What did you learn from losing everything in Vegas" and he replied; "I learned never to go back unless I'm rich because Vegas will eat me alive".

Then I, of course, counseled him about going for therapy, and going to GA (knowing it would fall on deaf ears).

He wrote me back "If I could not gamble, I would kill myself" I hate life, blah blah blah blah.

It's the same old story. It's like he copied and pasted his thoughts from 7 years ago. He has not grown (mentally) in any way, shape or form.

It's like he's stuck in immaturity land and he won't go anywhere.

I cannot take any more of his behavior.

I won't do this to myself, nor will I let him do it to my husband.

We deserve to be happy.

If he wants to lead a miserable life, (and believe me, there have been options for him), but he refuses any of it.

There is really nothing we can do.

I do, however, appreciate your taking the time to share your thoughts.

Thanks so much.

Melody

P.S. His diagnoses when he was a kid were ADD, ADHD, OPPOSITIONAL DEFIANCE DISORDER, you name it, he had it. Everything EXCEPT Aspergers.

Nothing more to be said.

Mel

Sounds like you've been through the ringer with your son. I'm sorry that he's been manipulative of you, your husband and your emotions. It's tough. It also sounds like he didn't learn his lesson about Vegas----after all a recovered gambling addict wouldn't tell you that they need to be rich to not lose their shirt?

What is Second Life all about anyhow? Sounds like enabling of poor choices and decisions, no?

As far as all the dx's except the aspy one, very, very typical. You mention GA, is that the state where he went through the educational system? I find it amazing how very different all 50 States can be when it comes to learning disabilities, etc. With the focus on something being 'wrong' with a childs personality just seems/feels so very wrong to me. At least with aspy/autism the focus can state, hey, there is something wrong neurologically, then modify behavior from there....less pressure on child's self-esteem/worth, if that makes sense....

(I know, I digress....my middle son has a developmental delay, at 3yr that's as far as a dx goes...I know what I believe him to have, but am letting time and patience play a hand at this stage...doing my research about what was troubling led me to find that clip about aspergers and personality disorders....when I find that again, I'll pm you the link if interested?)

I'm glad to see you hanging in there

Hey Mel! I was looking over New Posts and saw your thread. Every sentence you wrote, lured me to read on. Do I know anything about addictions or gambling? No, not alot, but I can say that I think the way you have opened your raw emotions here is very brave and I think, good therapy for you.

As parents' we are always looking for that sign that our decisions about our children are the ''right'' ones. Your son is not a child, as parents' they are always our kids. In your situation, I couldn't begin to give you advice, but it seems you have tried everything imaginable to help your DS, yet he refuses your help. Why? B/C he doesn't want help; he just wants to feed his addiction. I almost felt your pain as I read on. Your'e hurting b/c he's your son and you know that there is a better life for him out there; yet he rejects it. What can you do? I don't think there's anything more you CAN do.

People who choose to be self destructive, rejecting help and living the merry go round lifestyle that he is living, probably won't change. I just feel so bad for you and Alan. As I get older, I have the mindset that for every action~ there is a reaction. I used to give a few dollars to a homeless guy in another town, who would stand by an intersection holding a sign declaring he was a homeless Vet. I later found out that he used all the money donated to him for alcohol and cigarettes, plus he had a home AND wasn't even a Vet!!!

I was duped and have since learned to keep my car window rolled up.

You have to keep your car window rolled up, Mel.

I thank you for sharing your story, as the pain you and Alan have gone through is evident. But, if one parent, child, friend or addictive person sees this thread and is helped by it, then you are to be applauded.


I will keep you and Alan in my prayers.....

DM:

Thanks very much for what you wrote. I've been KEEPING MY WINDOWS ROLLED UP FOR OVER 7 YEARS.

And the suicide threat thing? It's his way of manipulating others to get what he wants. Since he knows that if you call up 911, that by law, they have to pick you up, bring you someplace, feed you, take care of you, etc. etc., well, he's learned that he doesn't have to GROW UP, BE ACCOUNTABLE, or whatever words I'm trying to find to express his thinking mind-set.

He told me this 7 years ago, when he started the getting on buses and getting off of buses and calling 911. The only time it backfired was when he landed in San Francisco. You see, every other time he got off of a bus (with his suitcase), he would call 911, and some paramedic or firemen would show up, put their arms over him, bring him to a crisis center, or a psych ward and he would get a place for the night (or sometimes up to 2 weeks), he would then phone me (he used phone cards at the time). I would then get a phone call from each social worker in EACH psych ward that he ended up in.

But when he did this in San Francisco, the cops showed up in a patrol car and handcuffed him. They brought him to the ER and when they saw he was no danger to himself, they un cuffed him. He phoned me and said "wow, I never knew they arrest you when you call 911". I said "haven't you learned ANYTHING BY NOW"??

I got so tired of all the phone calls that I typed up his whole background (from when he was a kid), and every time a new social worker from a new hospital would phone me I would interrupt them and say "Hold on, give me your fax number, I'm going to fax you all the info".

I must have done this 20 or more times. He did this from Arizona through California.

He finally settled in Bakersfield CA.

Oh, a poster on this forum asked me if GA was where he got his education. GA stands for GAMBLERS ANONYMOUS. This is where I believe he should be attending meetings.

He grew up in Brooklyn NY, and was put in Special Ed classes from first grade through 3rd grade, whereupon he informed us "Mom, I don't want to be in Special Ed any more, I want to be in regular classes". I then said "with your compulsive behavior, do you think you can manage being mainstreamed?" (Just imagine having this conversation with a kid in the 3rd grade, because I forget his age when we had this conversation.

He told me "don't worry, I know exactly what I'm doing".

HE DID!!! the Special Ed department started mainstreaming him in regular classes. He did just fine. He went into full regular classrooms in the 4th grade.

How did he do in the 4th Grade? Never got less than 100 on anything and had no tantrums. His teacher told me "I never think he's paying attention because he looks out of the window all the time, but then the test results come in and he gets 100%".

Then the Citywide Math tests were given. He scored in the 98 percentile OF ALL NEW YORK. So we know he's smart. He just has no soul. He sold it by the way on EBAY 7 years ago for $15.00. He drafted a document saying "This document contains the soul of ....." Some idiot bought it.

I have no way of knowing if he was gambling before the age of 20 because he was always on his computer in his room. But then, there could have been THE INTERNET GAMBLING, RIGHT?

What parents do not know is THAT THEIR KIDS ARE DOING STUFF AND THE PARENT'S HAVE NO CLUE. No clue at all.

My friend has a 30 year old beautiful daughter who parties all the time. She lives with men, then breaks up and finds another one. She drinks. What did the mother say? "oh, I know my daughter likes to drink now and then, but I know she doesn't do drugs". OH REALLY? Then what did I find when I walked into a backyard party one summer evening, (quite unexpectedly) and the aroma of Pot was everywhere and I said "oh my god, your grandma is right behind me, put that stuff out" And they were waving all the smoke around.

No one had a clue. I did not say anything because these people were 30 years old and who would believe me anyway?

And one night, I was over at a friend's house and the grandma was there, and they had asked me about my son, so I told them the latest developments. the grandma said "but he's your son, you don't send him money?" and I said "now why on earth would I send a gambler money"???

And the response? She walked over to me, patted me on the arm and said "Because he's your son".

I then countered with "If a 2 year old is walking with his parents and wants to jump off of a building, do you let them?" and she said "of course not" and I said "how come?" and she said "Well, it would hurt him, and we have to protect them".

I then said "so that same two year old is walking with you 5 times a week and every time you take him out he wants to go on the horsey ride and it costs you one dollar. And you do this 5 times a week. Then you are out of money, and you say "no" to the two year old. What do you think the 2 year old is going to do?"

She said "oh, he'll have a fit, a temper tantrum, etc." I said "now why is he doing that". And she got a lightbulb moment and said "oh, because he got used to going on the horsey ride so many times that week".

I said 'BINGO"

Now translate that to a grown up person being enabled by their parents, given free room and lodging and the parents say "but he's my son, we owe him".

She shook her head sadly and said "I could never be so strong, I would have given him all the money he wanted".

I said "thank god, he's not your son".

I'm telling you, I learn new stuff all the time just from speaking to people.

People are afraid of losing their grown children's love, and the kids know this, and they prey upon it.

Not right.

Okay, I'll get off of my soap box.

But it was really good to share all of this information with you. If this even helps one parent to put on some boundaries and say "no", once in a while, and when the kid looks at them incredulously and says" "what do you mean, NO, you can't say NO to me, I'm your child".

The parent should say "That's exactly why I'm saying NO"

Melody

Mel, big huge to you for being the strong mother you need to be. I wish my MIL could be as strong as you. My BIL is a drunk, manipulative abuser and hasn't held a job in years. He takes in women to support him and bail him out. He uses his mother to no end but she's an enabler and doesn't see her fault. I have told her so many times that we will NOT support him when she dies. She thinks he'll be fine. He compares himself to Jim in disabilities as if he's jealous.

Anyway, enough about that. My advice and take it or leave it is keep doing what your doing. My heart aches for you because I can feel your pain in all this. You have let go but your heart hasn't or you wouldn't be here posting.

He's an adult and you have to let him fall. I personally think all these organizations are enabling him as well. If he keeps getting bailed out he wont hit rock bottom.