Okay, here's where I NEED YOUR EXPERTISE.

I have a son who I haven't seen in 7 years. He is a compulsive gambler (been diagnosed with Aspergers). He graduated college on a full scholarship, moved out at 20, maxed out his credit cards, and began a journey visiting various casinos from Arizona to California.

He settled in California and applied for SSI which he got. One psychiatrist said "you have aspergers". All the other specialists diagnosed him with Narcissistic Personality Disorder.

To me and Alan, it really doesn't matter because he is toxic, selfish and does what he wants. For the first 2 years in California he was in and out of psych hospitals (just to get a bed (he admitted this). he would cry "suicide" and they would pick him up, feed and house him and he would say to me "Mom, they will walk over your dead body but cry suicide and by law they have to pick you up and take care of you". I checked, he was correct.

To say this gambling, and narcissistic behavior nearly destroyed us is putting in mildly. But we persevered, (Alan and I), grew closer, and formed a bond. It was us and only us.

I would maybe hear from my son 4 times a year. He used to ask for money. I went to gamanon meetins (and learned a great deal). I never sent him any money except on his birthday once a year and that was $25.00.

He got on SSI, they housed him in various board and cares, and various places and he gambled the rent (two times) and both times they took his payee status away. He won the right to be his own payee and he controlled his own money. He lost two apartments by the way. He would say things like: "gambling gives me hope", etc. etc. I'm depressed".

He has been on various meds (not when he lived at home).This all happened after he moved away.

For the past 4 or so years he has lived in a virtual reality world known as Second Life. This virtual reality game is extremely addictive and many marriages, relationships, etc, have been lost due to this addictive environment.

I have joined in forums where families discussed their family members being addicted to Second Life.

So my son has TWO things going on (that I know of), Second Life and the gambling. I really haven't had a conversation with him in a LONG time because I refuse to be a co-dependant and listen to the scams he pulls.

We thought he had settled in years ago, but it seems there has been a new development. Oh, by the way, he has cable tv, dsl lines, computer, dvd players, 3 meals a day (he does not cook but uses a microwave).

I've been down this road so many times I cannot tell you. I distanced myself about 2 years ago when the Second Life thing was consuming him 24 hours a day. I had spoken to his Social Workers, and they completely understood.

They told me years ago, "he doesn't do drugs, that's not his thing, his thing is gambling".

He only cares about himself (that much is painfully obvious).

So, after not hearing from him (his duty phone call I would refer to it), it's been about 5 months, the phone just ran, and there was a 702 area code.

It was him. I said "what are you doing in a 702 area code, you live in California."?

And he said "I'm in a Las Vegas Hospital". I said "you're what???"

And he said "I'm on suicide watch". You see, this is how he lived for 2 years after he left us. He would get on and off buses and call 911 and he would be picked up, fed, housed, etc. He would say "All I need is to get on SSI, then I'll be set". Guess he's not set?

So on to our conversation. I said "Oh, you're doing the sucide thing again?"

And he said "well, it's a lot more complicated now, I can't get home".

I said "why not? and why are you in Las Vegas?"

He said: 'I won money in Second Life, and thought I could win big in Vegas".

I said "But you've been doing this for YEARS, you haven't learned yet, THAT YOU CAN'T WIN??"

He sighed and said: "Listen, it's complicated, the reason I gamble is that it gives me hope". I said "but you're extremely intelligent, and you found out a long time ago that it doesn't work that way, you've lost it all before, and you had every chance to go for help, but you never did".

He said "Listen, I have no way to get back home (from Las Vegas to California), he takes the Greyhound.

I said "what do you want?" (I thought from the way he made it sound that he wanted $20 for the bus ride home).

He said "Well, with the bus ticket and some groceries (remember he doesn't need to cook because they supply him with 3 meals a day where he lives). He said "About $200 would do it" I said "oh, how sad, your dad and I just came home from the food pantry and we get our food there"

I then said "why don't you do what you did before, call the Kern Linkage Program and they'll pay for your bus ticket home (they do this).

He said "How about $150". I said "sorry, we have no money".

he said "oh, okay, I'll call you when I figure out what to do".

Okay people. I used to feel quite nothing when I thought of him (I've learned to do this).

I don't want my feelings waking up. He scares me. This is not a warm fuzzy mommy feeling that I now have. I lost that A LONG TIME AGO.

He's an addict. He knows it (but he makes excuses because of the aspergers ) which frankly, I do not believe he has. He's a con man and a manipulator.

He did this suicide bit YEARS AGO, and it got him whatever he wanted.

He's brilliant but he has never had a job in his life. He always said (after he moved away). I knew I would never work, besides, you gave birth to me, so you owe me". You have to try and picture my response to this.

We never use bad language, we never raise our voices. We try and be diplomatic but honestly, he's toxic and I don't want Alan to go through any more. He has enough health issues.

We've actually been quite happy for the past few years and I'd like to continue.

So I need your good wisdom.

Do I keep the phone on voice mail and do what I've been doing for years.

I know what I want to do. I don't know what I should do.

You see, I've done the research. Many young men who cry suicide actually die from fake attempts (because they think people will take care of them, send them money, WHATEVER!!!

I am prepared for this. The first time he did this 7 years ago, I remember being on the phone with the sucide hot line for 5 nights in a row till 3 a.m. and they sent a (I think it's called a PACT team). to his apartment, to find him perfectly fine and laughing. He said "mom, I didn't mean it".

To say that I don't want him in our lives is putting it mildly.

I'd appreciate any advice you would care to give.

And I hope you don't judge me.

Melody

P.S. If anyone wants to PM me, that's fine

Wow, 21 people have read this post and no one has commented.

That's absolutely amazing. I expected to get some "he's your son, you owe it to him to keep trying", or "you know what you need to do, so keep doing it".

But I got nothing.

My goodness!!

Melody

Melody...21 views has nothing to do with "people". Search engines send out bots and spiders, they view posts and gather the info so it can be found in searches. Like Google and Yahoo. Also if a non member reads, they can't reply.

I wish I had advice. I'm a firm beleiver in tough love and not having toxic people in my life. It's tough, can be seen as being cold or mean. I just don't want those type of people around me or my family...even if they are blood.

I wouldn't give a penny. My brother was enabled by my parents. I beleive it contributed to his death.

I think your gut and Mother Heart are telling you what you need to hear.

I wish I could help too. I think only a person who has had experience with things like this, can share their experience and the wisdom they acquired.

When people don't have experience with this, offering help is just very difficult and iffy.

Is there a Gambler's Anon group near you? Have you tried talking to other gamblers who have been there done that?

I am so sorry you have to go thru this. It sounds agonizing.

Hi All!!!

Thanks SO much for having my back.

Let me be honest. When a parent goes through this FOR 7 YEARS, and yes, I've done the gammanon thing. When he first left home, began the getting on buses and getting off buses so he could be housed, and maxed out all his credit cards and went to casinos, etc. etc. etc AD NAUSEUM!!!, Alan and I went to our first Gammanon meeting.

You see, YEARS AGO, we did the Tough Love meetings (so we had already learned not to enable). We took him to the Scared Straight program at Rahway prison (just imagine being surrounded by convicted killers inside this cage thing, with all these juvenile delinquents being put on the stage so these convicted killers (who turned out to be very sweet indeed), well, they have the kids up on the stage, and the convicted killers start screaming at them telling them that THEY ARE GOING TO WIND UP IN THAT PRISON UNLESS THEY STRAIGHTEN OUT".

That's when you see the kids start crying because they walked in so high and mighty and walked out all deflated.

And while this is going on, imagine prison gards (outside of the cage), walking around with what looked like AK 47 rifles (I wouldn't know a prison rifle from a machine gun). Yes, we did ALL OF THESE THINGS.

And we did the counseling. Oh, the counseling. We did it ALL!!!

And he changed. At the age of 16 through 20, there were no more incidents. He graduated high school, and went to college on a full scholarship. He designed graphics and websites and he told us he was going to game design school in Arizona.

That never happened. But when you have one child and he is so promising, and you never saw him gamble, then how does one know what that child will end up doing.

Certainly not getting on and off buses, and calling 911 so they could HOUSE HIM FOR THE NIGHT.

He once told me that he was picked up by firemen once (this was in Arizona), and the guy told him "you want to be taken care of? go to California, they'll house you". So he did.

This has been a parent's nightmare. The gambling, (I had no idea what the heck this meant because the only gambling I ever did was the occasional poker game on Christmas with my family (years ago).

Whether this is genetic, or has to do with extrernal environmental triggers, or whatever it is that makes him live in a virtual reality world such as Second Life, make money in that world, and sell the virtual money on other websites (people actually pay REAL money, to buy FAKE money (called Linden dollars), so they can go into Second Life and live out fantasies....

Well, I can't pretend to understand this, but it is what it is.

But when a 27 year old person who has never worked, and knows that his dad is ill, and has NEVER called him and asked about him, (and believe me, I've watched many episodes of INTERVENTION, and I've watched EVERY episode of The Cleaner with Benjamin Bratt....I've learned how the brain works ,,,,we have to face up to our addictions and either let them destroy us (without caring who else it destroys), or we get help.

I have tried for YEARS to get him the help he so desperately needs, but does not want.

When I posted my problem on this board, I needed to have my feelings and actions validated. There is no one I can tell this to. My family is so uncomfortable with what he did, they haven't asked about him in 6 years. TRUE!!! People who can't deal with stuff, well they DON'T.

So I have learned to deal with it myself and take care of ME, and take care of Alan.

Never in all my life did I ever think that the person I gave birth to 27 years ago, would turn out like this. With no regard for anything but the way gambling makes him feel.

Oh, Alan made a very good point last night. I was talking to him and saying "I wonder how he is going to get the money to go back to California from Las Vegas"

I even said to Alan "I was thinking of sending him the $25 bus fare (I know, BAD STUPID THING), but Alan set me straight and said "you are sending him NOTHING". I said 'thanks for bringing me back to the present".

Then we figured it out.

My son lives in California in a voucher program, and gets housing, food, and is his own payee. He has had to fight to be his own payee (2 times), due to his gambling problem.

If he calls the social worker in California for money, they will revoke his payee status and appoint a company to be his payee.

He doesn't want ANYONE else controlling him.

So he called me up asking for $200 thinking "well, she'll give me $200. I'll go back to the Casino, I'll WIN BIG" and all will be fine.

He was wrong.

Alan just asked me "I wonder how he will get home". I said "he's gone 27 years without ever working a day in his life, and he has an apartment, a computer, a tv, dvd player, dsl line, etc." DON'T WORRY ABOUT HIM, HE'S CREATIVE.

I am thinking that he will probably go knocking on church rectories telling the people that he was mugged and needs to get home. That might work.

Or, if he's done that and there's no one to give him "going home money", that the only thing he CAN do is go to his nearest GA meeting, lie to them, and promise he'll go to GA when he gets back home, thinking that they will give him the money to get the bus home.

I don't know if they would fall for that.

My son is extremely creative, manipulative and controlling.

Too bad he didn't use these gifts to make himself a better person.

Alan is heart broken over this.

Me??? I shall continue to grow my sprouts, eat my veggies, and go for a walk.

I can't let my son or anything negative or toxic BRING ME BACK TO THAT PLACE WHERE I WAS YEARS AGO, when he began this destructive behavior.

The worst was when he was crying suicide (and the first time he did that), Alan and I re-arranged the living room furniture because we thought we would be having people coming over the next day to sit with us while we mourned.

Just imagine going through that.

No, I did this 7 years ago. I'm not moving any more furniture.

I give people (who deal with this and can't say no), well, I give them credit. They do this to be able to live with themselves.

I've LEARNED how to live with myself.

Took 7 years.

Thank you very much for listening and letting me vent.

It was needed.

Melody

I'm sorry to hear you are going through this. Living with a Personality Disorder of any kind is tough, NP's being the toughest!

Here are some well recommended books that I've heard about through another message board, devoted to a specific pd.

The Wizard of OZ and other Narcissists" by Eleanor Payson
Why is it always about you?" by Hotchkiss
Will I Ever Be Good Enough?" by McBride

And 'Fatal Flaws' by Yudofsky

I, personally, have yet to tackle in depth the PD of Narcissism, but was planning a book or two for my summer reads.

I feel these books should be empowering, shine some light on what makes an NP tick, and learn some new communication techniques, that can be used in all manners of relationships.

And 'Look me in the eyes' by Robinson is written by a gentleman with Aspergers, and I've heard decent reviews, as it sheds light into this disorder. From what I understand about Aspergers', if not caught early in life, it can result in a personality disorder of some shape or form. Not catching early was not uncommon, even two decades ago. It's tough to diagnos, even with early intervention....so, I'm not surprised to hear that your son has these two disorders co-morbid with one another.

As far as the suicide threats, I know this is tough. Have you researched borderline personality disorder? There is a new book out there that speaks in laymans terms and helps communications...."The essential family guide to understanding borderline personality disorder"-Kreger. Though your son wasn't dx'd with that, you can learn tips and techniques for dealing with the suicide threats.

One being to set your own personal boundaries. If you threaten around me, I will not hesistate to call the authorities, and follow through. It's not up to you to rescue them from themselves.....

Tough love is tough, and I feel for 'ya! Hang in there!

Hi. And thank you for replying. I have researched every personality disorder on this planet. I did not read, however, that when aspergers is not caught early, that it morphs into a personality disorder. I believe this is what has happened.

We had him in counseling most of his life because of his disruptive behavior in school when he was 6 or so. One therapist told us "he needs to feel loved, so go out and buy him all new clothes". We did. Nothing changed.

Another therapist said "when he has meltdowns, he must know that you will not tolerate it, so you must discipline him with a hairbrush (and never use your hands because hands should only show love).

Well, for some unknown reason, this worked. His dad gave him the spanking of his life when he was 8. I think he had one more spanking after that and he NEVER HAD ANOTHER MELTDOWN TILL HE WAS 15.

I don't believe in corporal punishment, but then again, I never thought I would have a kid that I had to bring to Rahway prison and do the Tough Love meetings with. (But this did indeed happen).

I believe in accountability. He has never been accountable for anything he has done after he moved away home. They have given him EVERYTHING.

He never had to work for a thing. He doesn't believe he has to. He has such self indulgent theories, I will never understand his way of thinking.

As far as the suicide thing, he had done this for years. It's how he gets his way. He knows that they will pick him up and take care of him, and they always have. I think this is appalling and he knows this.

He needs intensive therapy but they can't force him.

After I made my initial post on this board, two days later, a social worker from the hospital in Vegas telephoned me. She introduced herself and I said:

"Hold on please, I know exactly what you are going to say, I have been down this road MANY TIMES". I was polite and I informed her.

She knew I wasn't sending him any money.

Yesterday he emailed me saying "Just wanted you to know that I am home and that a friend in Second Life is wiring me $40 to cover me for the month, and thank god that I have friends in Second Life".

I asked him "What did you learn from losing everything in Vegas" and he replied; "I learned never to go back unless I'm rich because Vegas will eat me alive".

Then I, of course, counseled him about going for therapy, and going to GA (knowing it would fall on deaf ears).

He wrote me back "If I could not gamble, I would kill myself" I hate life, blah blah blah blah.

It's the same old story. It's like he copied and pasted his thoughts from 7 years ago. He has not grown (mentally) in any way, shape or form.

It's like he's stuck in immaturity land and he won't go anywhere.

I cannot take any more of his behavior.

I won't do this to myself, nor will I let him do it to my husband.

We deserve to be happy.

If he wants to lead a miserable life, (and believe me, there have been options for him), but he refuses any of it.

There is really nothing we can do.

I do, however, appreciate your taking the time to share your thoughts.

Thanks so much.

Melody

P.S. His diagnoses when he was a kid were ADD, ADHD, OPPOSITIONAL DEFIANCE DISORDER, you name it, he had it. Everything EXCEPT Aspergers.

Nothing more to be said.

Mel

Sounds like you've been through the ringer with your son. I'm sorry that he's been manipulative of you, your husband and your emotions. It's tough. It also sounds like he didn't learn his lesson about Vegas----after all a recovered gambling addict wouldn't tell you that they need to be rich to not lose their shirt?

What is Second Life all about anyhow? Sounds like enabling of poor choices and decisions, no?

As far as all the dx's except the aspy one, very, very typical. You mention GA, is that the state where he went through the educational system? I find it amazing how very different all 50 States can be when it comes to learning disabilities, etc. With the focus on something being 'wrong' with a childs personality just seems/feels so very wrong to me. At least with aspy/autism the focus can state, hey, there is something wrong neurologically, then modify behavior from there....less pressure on child's self-esteem/worth, if that makes sense....

(I know, I digress....my middle son has a developmental delay, at 3yr that's as far as a dx goes...I know what I believe him to have, but am letting time and patience play a hand at this stage...doing my research about what was troubling led me to find that clip about aspergers and personality disorders....when I find that again, I'll pm you the link if interested?)

I'm glad to see you hanging in there

Hey Mel! I was looking over New Posts and saw your thread. Every sentence you wrote, lured me to read on. Do I know anything about addictions or gambling? No, not alot, but I can say that I think the way you have opened your raw emotions here is very brave and I think, good therapy for you.

As parents' we are always looking for that sign that our decisions about our children are the ''right'' ones. Your son is not a child, as parents' they are always our kids. In your situation, I couldn't begin to give you advice, but it seems you have tried everything imaginable to help your DS, yet he refuses your help. Why? B/C he doesn't want help; he just wants to feed his addiction. I almost felt your pain as I read on. Your'e hurting b/c he's your son and you know that there is a better life for him out there; yet he rejects it. What can you do? I don't think there's anything more you CAN do.

People who choose to be self destructive, rejecting help and living the merry go round lifestyle that he is living, probably won't change. I just feel so bad for you and Alan. As I get older, I have the mindset that for every action~ there is a reaction. I used to give a few dollars to a homeless guy in another town, who would stand by an intersection holding a sign declaring he was a homeless Vet. I later found out that he used all the money donated to him for alcohol and cigarettes, plus he had a home AND wasn't even a Vet!!!

I was duped and have since learned to keep my car window rolled up.

You have to keep your car window rolled up, Mel.

I thank you for sharing your story, as the pain you and Alan have gone through is evident. But, if one parent, child, friend or addictive person sees this thread and is helped by it, then you are to be applauded.


I will keep you and Alan in my prayers.....

Mel, big huge to you for being the strong mother you need to be. I wish my MIL could be as strong as you. My BIL is a drunk, manipulative abuser and hasn't held a job in years. He takes in women to support him and bail him out. He uses his mother to no end but she's an enabler and doesn't see her fault. I have told her so many times that we will NOT support him when she dies. She thinks he'll be fine. He compares himself to Jim in disabilities as if he's jealous.

Anyway, enough about that. My advice and take it or leave it is keep doing what your doing. My heart aches for you because I can feel your pain in all this. You have let go but your heart hasn't or you wouldn't be here posting.

He's an adult and you have to let him fall. I personally think all these organizations are enabling him as well. If he keeps getting bailed out he wont hit rock bottom.