[marabunta]

After reading the Wikipedia entry for Neuropathic pain: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuropathic_pain

especially the description and treatment of dysesthesias http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dysesthesia

I was encouraged to try CAPZASIN roll-on last Sunday. I tried a small spot for a few hours, then another small spot for another few hours before hitting my major trouble spots(shoulder ball and traps).

I've been in agony since Monday morning, not sure if its from the single Capsazin application or a cold/allergy related flare. I'm 13 weeks post-op and still waiting for the nerves to completely wake up.(C5 &6 were embedded within my scalenes, among other issues) I thought I was rid of the burning pain and had moved on to the random "needle-stick/bee sting" strikes.

So I thought I'd throw this out there for any ideas? at least as a warning to anyone thinking of trying these capsaicin products.

I did find the following studies that were interesting, especially the MONTHS
of relief provided:
UCSF STUDY SUGGESTS CAPSAICIN SIGNIFICANTLY REDUCES
DEBILITATING NERVE PAINhttp://www.ucsf.edu/pressrel/1998/03/0302caps.html

http://heelspurs.com/capsaicin.html

-Marabunta

[tshadow]

Is it one of those menthol - burning - icy - hot ointments?

If so, I almost DIED trying some - I was screaming into my pillow and it lasted DAYS until finally it subsided.

The ONLY thing I can tolerate is lotion that is odorless, and I like Aspercreme the best.

What is the capsaicin like?

[DiMarie]

Those that have alodynia nerve pain can get a reverse reaction from a pepper product. The nerves that are sensory (feel a burn from a candle) carry a hypersignal; maybe even post op, the motor nerves are waking up., but snesory, feeling nerves are hyper.

Even so in using a capasacine product, use for ex: in a tube a dab size at the trigger area, never apply the capasacine as a suntun lotion!!!!!!

If I have CT pain I dab the wrist with it, less then a pea. It sends confusing signals ,over sensitive ones, or a different pain. Did you ever hear someone say if you hurt step on your foot or hit your thumb so the pain goes over top of what is chronic, the acute now hurts more

I use more Biofreeze, or cyrofreeze products. Tha ball area you talk about and trap, I have a mixture of alcohol one part, water two parts to make cold ice slush. wrap up as it is COLD. and place it on that spot as you recline.
OR Blue Ice.....

The heat pad, hot tub, and rice sock in the microwave, are other times, non flare, daily thing. The ice is a bigger pain, a pain I have to dig my fingers or a tennis ball into. I lean into the wall with a tennis ball and rub.

[marabunta]

Thanks DiMarie and Tam.

I did just get over the post-op burning phase of the nerves waking up, I don't know what possessed me to try this now, especially with a cold/allergy induced flare. My 'needle-stick' pains have intensified to random "bee stings".


Tam, It's not the menthol stuff, I tolerate that just fine(IcyHot, Absorbine, Jr., etc.) This is the hot pepper oil stuff. Capzasin Arthritis Pain Relief No Mess Applicator - 1 Oz and I think it elicited about the same "Screaming into my pillow" and days of agony.

I think I needed to be diligent about washing it off sooner with baby shampoo or Dawn dishwashing liquid.

DiMarie, you and I are on the same page for treatment! Slushy ice bags, rice sock, heating pad, new soaking tub with gentle jets(still have to get the tile installed around that one, but it works for now with the plastic tacked up!)

[DiMarie]

I have a Roll on lavendar cyrofreeze like BioFreeze, I love, but the first week I got it when I got out of the shower....I picked it up instead of my roll on deodorant
I do love buddies, Gee my 76 year old grandma did not have a closet of needs and equipment like I do
Hope the pins and needles calm down soon,
di

[marabunta]

Yes, my 83 year old grandma doesn't have all the gear my wife and I have at the moment. My wife's 6 months pregnant and has had disabling migraines since about Christmas. She's finally finding some relief from acupuncture. Right now we've got a whole shelf in the freezer devoted to various ice packs!

[lisa_tos]

I went to a talk given by a professor of pharmacology who studied which herbal remedies work. She did say capzasin works but only if you use a 0.1% cremme applied 4 times a day. Less than that is not a therapuetic dose. She commented the burning pain on initial use is a temporary effect that goes away with regular use.

However, as you found, the initial burning pain can be bad enough for some people it's not worth trying to get to a therapuetic dose.

In the UCSF study, people were given 5% to 10% capzasin with a painkiller for that initial burning pain.

I tried it when I had high hypersentivity (i.e. alodynia) and the initial pain was quite bad and I couldn't tolerate the product. When my hypersentivity is lower and I just have the burning pain from my TOS, I can tolerate the initial burning pain of the capzasin . I can even apply the cremme to a wide area.

[marabunta]

Yesterday I received my mail orders of both Biofreeze and 3 'flavors' of Cryogel roll-ons. I also ordered the Biofreeze in tubes. Call me crazy but I was in a lot of pain late Friday night and so I went online and bought a little of each to try out

After sampling on a non-affected body area(calf), I used the menthol Biofreeze on my brachial plexis last night...still a light application there and between my bicep/tricep where one of the smaller muscles had been twitching all day. I had had PT in the AM, we've started some strengthening of my shoulder and arm muscles so I was taking it easy the rest of the day. I've been tolerating PT better this time around(post-op) than at ANY time in the past 16 years.

Felt good for the first few hours...I had gone to bed WAY early, as soon as my toddler daughter went to bed. Usually I stay up and visit with my wife for a few hours, let her turn in first, then I do a final set of stretches before I turn in.
But starting around 1am, I started having coughing fits every half hour or so. By 3am I was throwing up a bit and dreading the inevitable flare I would have today. After another episode at 4am, I grabbed a dose of Phenergan-codeine & the comforter and headed for the lazy-boy. I passed out there until 8am when my daughter awoke, then wound up back in bed until 4:30 this afternoon. Somehow I didn't have a flare, especially having missed 2 doses of Norco.

My 18mo daughter is so cute. They were gone all day, but she wanted me out of bed. She found me pants and a shirt out of the clean (but not folded or put away, of course) and kept trying to help me get dressed in bed. Once I came out to the family room she climbed up on the couch and patted the seat next to her until I sat down with a book for her. I'm having a terrible time holding books open or turning the pages, luckily she's getting better at that. She threw a fit wanting to try some of the Biofreeze, I wound up giving her the smallest of dabs to the back of her hand.

My RN wife is convinced I had a throat spasm from PT during the night. I really don't know what to think, although I'm guessing I'm caught up on sleep now!

I guess I just want to say thanks for the leads on Biofreeze and Cryogel. My previous favorite was that old standby, Absorbine, Jr.

[dabbo]

Mara- I'm sorry that you were ill... I had something like that last week. Ugh. I also have an 18mo old who didn't understand why daddy was upstairs asleep when she was downstairs playing.
Biofreeze is my friend!! I think that the roll-on is easier to apply, but the gel seems to last a little longer. The only problem with putting it on at work is that people wonder what that smell is .

hope you're feeling better

[olecyn]

I can concur
Ihave tried everything and it helps temporarily but for me they ultimately increae the throbbing burning.
Cyndy

Originally Posted by DiMarie

Those that have alodynia nerve pain can get a reverse reaction from a pepper product. The nerves that are sensory (feel a burn from a candle) carry a hypersignal; maybe even post op, the motor nerves are waking up., but snesory, feeling nerves are hyper.

Even so in using a capasacine product, use for ex: in a tube a dab size at the trigger area, never apply the capasacine as a suntun lotion!!!!!!

If I have CT pain I dab the wrist with it, less then a pea. It sends confusing signals ,over sensitive ones, or a different pain. Did you ever hear someone say if you hurt step on your foot or hit your thumb so the pain goes over top of what is chronic, the acute now hurts more

I use more Biofreeze, or cyrofreeze products. Tha ball area you talk about and trap, I have a mixture of alcohol one part, water two parts to make cold ice slush. wrap up as it is COLD. and place it on that spot as you recline.
OR Blue Ice.....

The heat pad, hot tub, and rice sock in the microwave, are other times, non flare, daily thing. The ice is a bigger pain, a pain I have to dig my fingers or a tennis ball into. I lean into the wall with a tennis ball and rub.