[Pabloh]

Hi, everyone.

I'm really fed up today. The reason being I have seen yet another (yeah, all I seem to be seeing is physios) and she tells me from my MRI I've got nothing wrong with my back, just muscle wastage. She had the MRI right in front of her and it had one disc that was black (no fluid in it apparently, degenerated) in the MRI and the rest were ok (on MRIs they should be white in the middle). How can this be muscle wastage? I have conflicting information as I've seen other physios too and they say different things. I haven't seen the consultant. He couldn't be bothered to see me which I think is extremely rude and unprofessional.

I'm totally dissapointed. I've been told by my physio there is nothing they can do. I've got to live with it and that's it. Is this a valid information or are they totally off the hook? I'm only young and they can't fix it! So much for the so-called health professionals. I'm sick and tired of this unsatisfactory health service that I have been constantly getting.

I would be extremely grateful if any of you could give me a little advcie on this.

P.s: I'm in the UK.

[supernova_krose]

Pabloh,
So sorry the physio couldn't help you. Any chance you can get your MRI films and take them to another place to look at? In the US there are places you can pay to send your films to get get a diagnosis....don't know if there are such places in the UK. There are some pretty well known spinal surgeons in Europe that you may be able to go to, or at least get a consult with. Here's a link to a consultant that helps US citizens have disk replacement surgery in Europe (http://globalpatientnetwork.com/)

Take care,

Kay

[Pabloh]

Thanks for your help and advice, supernova_krose. I have found you and many others on this forum to be extremely helpful and very informative in these confusing times that I have been having with my spine.

I have asked the hospital for copies of my MRI and x-ray results reports and will also ask them for copies of the MRI and x-rays. I am just waiting to hear if they'll let me have them. I'll let you know if they do let me have them and tell you what the results reports say. I haven't thought of that - where you can send the MRIs and x-rays to be looked at.

I found the website that you gave a link to helpful and informative. Thank you very much.

I would also be grateful if anyone could recommend any hospitals or spine surgeons that are in the UK as I am certainly thinking of going to a different hospital to the one that keeps putting me onto physiotherapists all the time as I think it's time I saw a spine surgeon now.

[Bobbi]

... just want to say that I'm sorry for what you're going through.

[Pabloh]

Thanks, Bobbi

[cathy911]

I found for me it helped to get my neurologist to call the surgeon. The first surgeon I went to with MRI in hand said I had the normal wear and tear on the back of a 50 year old woman, I told my neurologist that and it ticked him off so bad he called that surgeon to discuss the effect area's in the lumbar region and referred me to another surgeon who did a fusion within two weeks on L5/S1 and I feel like a new person. My neuro says there's alot of buck passing on back surgeries when a major surgery is involved sometimes and it helps to have a professional on your side to help be your voice, I know it did in my case.

Cathy

[Pabloh]

Thanks for your help and advice and also sharing your experience, cathy911.

I have just been back to my G.P yesterday and when I told him about my below satisfactory experience he immediately said that a physiotherapist shouldn't be making the decisions of a spine surgeon and then spoke into a voice recorder asking for the consultant spine surgeon to see me personally. Someone will probably be typing that out onto a computer via an audio machine resulting in a letter to the hospital. He also said that for the physiotherapist to say nothing was wrong with me is also completely rubbish as he said there is something wrong with my spine.

What is confusing me is that one minute my G.P said they may do a fusion and/or discectomy and now he's saying that I'm too young! He's suddenly changed his mind! By the way I'm 20 so perhaps they never do fusions or any type of spine surgery on anyone until they are over 30 because I seem to be being told that all the time. Basically all they can do is make me live on drugs which I don't really want to do as I'm not that sort of person. I try to soldier on without as drugs can also cause more harm than good in the long run.

They are saying that they reckon I need an epidural which contains steroids - known to also be harmful in side effects to the bones so I'm not sure if that is a good idea or not. Probably not as again I'm young and don't want to damage my bones.

The problem over here in the UK is that all G.Ps, physiotherapists, surgeons, etc, say they won't do anything on a young person and that leaves very little options open to me and others.

I would be grateful if you or anyone else could let me know if there are treatments for young people as healthcare professionals, unfortunately just don't know what to do with young people suffering from back problems.

[supernova_krose]

Pabloh,
If you do end up having an epidural suggested, give it a try. A few shots in a year aren't going to hurt your bones, and may very well calm your nerves and relieve some pain. I've had epidural steroids on a number of occasions, and they've mostly helped. My secretary has them done on her c spline every couple of years, and it's saved her from surgery. The other thing she has is a tens unit that she uses when she has a flare up, and that helps too.

You probably do want to avoid fusion for as long as possible, but if a discectomy would help, it's not as major of surgery as a fusion. When I had one, I was back working in 2 weeks, and back traveling for my job in 6 weeks. I had a micro discectomy, so with a very small incision. My doctor has now actually recommended a fusion, but I'm getting by with occasional epidurals and occasional pain medication.

I'm glad to hear your GP is trying to get you into seeing a spinal surgeon. Good luck with finding something out!

Kay

[Pabloh]

Thanks for your help, advice and sharing your experience, supernova_krose.

I will probably have the epidural and see what happens if they let me have one. Even though my nerve isn't trapped on the MRI, do you reckon it'll still help to calm the nerves down as I'm not sure whether they are only for trapped nerves?

I agree with you on avoiding a fusion for as long as possible as I have been told that it can cause more problems like further degeneration from the other discs taking the stress.

Would a discectomy or microdiscectomy help even though the MRI shows that my nerve isn't trapped or compressed?

I certainly wouldn't want to change my G.P now as he seems very persistant on getting my back sorted as much as possible which is a positive thing in itself.

Below is what my MRI results report says as I managed to get a copy of it.

MRI of spine (lower): There is disc degeneration at L2/L3 level with a Schmorl's node and annular bulging. The degeneration would appear to be Grade 3. The remaining discs appear normal. There is no evidence of facet osteoarthritis. The sacroiliac joints are normal. There is no evidence of nerve root compression and all foramina are normal. The conus is normal.

Do you or anyone else know what a Schmorls node is and what the treatment may be for this and the annular bulging, including disc degeneration?

I haven't seen a lot of posts about Schmorls nodes anywhere so I'm not sure what these are.

[supernova_krose]

Here's are two web sites that describe what a Schmore's node is.

http://www.chiroweb.com/archives/09/19/16.html
http://www.bonatiinstitute-glossary....ls-nodes.shtml

If you do a web search, you'll find more information.

Grade 3 is termed "moderate" disk degeneration.

Your MRI report overall doesn't sound too bad. The bones appear to be in good shape, so if your pain is from the disk, it may be possible that a 1 level disk replacement would help you. But before you try something as dramatic as that, look into what doctor's call "conservative" care. The epidural you mention would fall under that category. You might also consider going to a chiropractor for some massage or ultrasound treatment.

If you read chirogeek's web page (http://www.chirogeek.com), there's info on how you can get pain from annular tears, even without nerve impingement. The epidural steroid treatment may very well help you.

The process of disk degeneration can cause pain. I have a friend who had degenerative disk disease, and they treated him with a procedure called IDET, which essentially cooks the disks, and accelerates the degeneration process, which then relieves the pain associated with degeneration. He wore a brace for a few months, and he's much better now.

Good luck,

Kay