[NancyM]

You just know from that title that I'm talking about poop.

After about a year since going gluten free I haven't had any of those toilet clogging BMs. I think my former diet caused me to have really large BMs. But for the last 10 months I was also have multiple movements every day, so perhaps I wasn't having them because they were so frequent. But I always associated those toilet clogging BMs with eating grains.

But I've changed my diet now and I'm eating paleo style. Lots of veggies, meat, eggs, nuts, some fruit. Nothing antigenic except for one new addition: Kefir. Yes, I decided to add a bit of kefir to my diet in the form of goat milk kefir. It has made my digestive system much happier but the enormous BMs are back and I clog the toilet every other day. According to Dr. Fine's lab, I am casein sensitive but I was hoping I could get away with kefir because I really wanted those bacteria.

Any insight here? Are the big BMs a sign that maybe things are going through me too quickly? I don't feel like I am overeating.

I hate to give up the kefir, I know I could ferment other stuff but I'm not crazy about the flavors. The coconut milk kefir was ok, but the grains don't really thrive in it.

[kozz]

mmmmm I have kefir and I have not found my bowel movements have increased in size ....... actually the opposite

I presumed the kefir was helping me digest more of what I eat so there wasnt as much waste

BTW how much kefir do you have and how long do you forment it for ?

we let our kefir forment for 48 hours although now summer has arrived ( with temps in the 30s and up ) we keep the kefir in the cupboard for the first 24 hours then the fridge for the next 24 hours ........ otherwise it gets too sour and alcoholly

I have 200ml for breakfast with flaxseed

kozz

[rachelb]

I would try kefir made with something other than dairy and see if it helps.

I know someone who follows the Body Ecology Diet and makes coconut water kefir: http://bodyecology.com/coconutkefir.php

I think you can also find soy kefir, but I would only use that if you know you're not sensitive to soy.

Here's a site with instructions for non-dairy kefir, milk, yogurt, and more:

http://users.chariot.net.au/~dna/vegmilk.html

Rachel

[NancyM]

I guess I'll have to trial a run of milk free kefir and see how I do. I was afraid I'd ruin my kefir grains if I didn't use milk at least part of the time. But I've got some dried now as backup so if I did ruin my grains I have ones to fall back on. I avoid soy so that's out. I tried almond milk but it was pretty awful tasting.

I drink 1-2 cups of kefir every day. I let it ferment for close to 24-48 hours. I try to catch it before it separates. I've been using Dom's site for instructions.

Do y'all think those enormous BMs are a bad sign? Other than their size they seem healthy. It is an improvement over the messy BMs I had for so many months.

Another kefir question: Do more grains form? Or do the ones I have just keep getting bigger?

[rachelb]

Hey Nancy, I had a thought today. Have you tried using raw milk for your kefir? You might find it works better for you than pasteurized. You could also try using goat or sheep milk (if you can find it and also preferably raw) and see if that helps, too.

Rachel

[NancyM]

I have finally seen Raw milk but at about 8 dollars for a half gallon... yikes! I'm currently using goats.

I'll give the raw milk a try at some point and see what happens.

[kozz]

HI nancy and sorry I took so long to get back to you ......... havent been able to type for a few days

meanwhile I am glad rachel sugested raw milk it was one of things I was going to suggest ! the price sounds steep but it is about the same here $3 a litre ( 4.5 litres are a gallon ) ......... which is why in the end we got our own goats ......... now we have a milk glut but arent allowed to sell raw milk without conforming to a million stupid conditions I would even give it away but havent found anyone close enough who wants it .......... pity you dont live here LOL

raw milk has enzymes which digest the milk and these are destroyed by heating ( pasturising ) and many believe that this is responsible for the epidemic of heart disease ...... without th ezymes milk just clogs up arteries ....... will try and return with the link later

Originally Posted by NancyM

.

I drink 1-2 cups of kefir every day. I let it ferment for close to 24-48 hours. I try to catch it before it separates. I've been using Dom's site for instructions.

I have less than half this amount ( 250 ml is a cup ) so maybe you could cut down ad still get the benefit withour having so much dairy

Another kefir question: Do more grains form? Or do the ones I have just keep getting bigger?

more grains form and the overall mass of stuff that looks like caulilower gets bigger

regards
koz

[NancyM]

Thanks for the answers! Good, looking forward to some new baby grains. It seems like I've been at 3 for a long time.

I think things might be settling down a bit. Haven't had a clogger in a week, so maybe I just needed some time to adjust.

About that raw milk enzyme, do you have any idea what it is called? I've heard this repeated over and over but it almost sounds like lore to me. I wonder if maybe people are confusing lactase which is an enzyme that digests lactose? I have seen another called phosphatase but that breaks down phosphoric acid. I'm still unconvinced there's anything in raw milk that helps you digest caseins. I'd love to be proven wrong.

Actually, I just went surfing for the answer and found this:

Plasmin: Plasmin is a proteolytic enzyme; it splits proteins. Plasmin attacks both ß -casein and alpha(s2)-casein. It is very heat stable and responsible for the development of bitterness in pasteurized milk and UHT processed milk. It may also play a role in the ripening and flavour development of certain cheeses, such as Swiss cheese.

http://www.foodsci.uoguelph.ca/dairy....html#protein5

But it sounds like it should survive pastuerization.

[kozz]

Hi Nancy

I am still looking for the one particluar site but this may interest you

thre are differnt types of caseins and A2 is moe digestable than the more common A1

http://www.enzymestuff.com/rtcowmilktypes.htm

I also posted some stuff at OBT in a topic called MILK ISSUES but I searched and it doesnt come up

and this from Dr mercola

Once you heat milk to pasteurize it there is serious damage that is done to the fragile milk proteins that actually cause it to function as a potent allergen. That is one of the main reasons why milk is the most common allergy

http://www.mercola.com/2006/nov/16/f...lk-sources.htm

also see

http://www.mercola.com/2003/mar/26/pasteurized_milk.htm

kozz

[NancyM]

This has been a subject that has consumed many of my hours in the past and I'm sucked in again. I am looking for more scientific information about the role of enzymes in milk beyond what the average Internet health guru has to say. So far what I'm finding seems to be the opinion that a lot of those enzymes aren't compatible with human phsyiology, they work great for cows but not for us. Some of them are actually produced by bacteria and cause milk to spoil. And some are even indications of the cow's health, or lack thereof.

I'm a terrible, terrible skeptic about the claims of raw milk. But like I said, I'd love to find something that proves the claims are true.

This had some interesting stuff but it is a bit hard to read.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0824...18780-3317730#