[paula_w]

I wonder how many people realize that they need these private funds more than ever to make lines with these cells? Am I mistaken in thinking that Obama did the only thing that was legal -namely remove the date restrictions - making many more embryos available? The rest he gave to congress and the NIH to figure out?

Stem Cell Decision Worries Some Scientists
ANDREW POLLACK
Published: March 10, 2009
LOS ANGELES — While praised by scientists, President Obama’s decision to lift restrictions on federal financing of embryonic stem cell research could cause state governments and philanthropists to pull back on billions of dollars they have pledged for such work.


A number of states and philanthropies rushed in to fill the gap after President George W. Bush imposed the restrictions in 2001. California voters alone approved spending $3 billion over 10 years, making the state’s taxpayers the nation’s largest financial backers of the research.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/11/he...r=1&ref=health

[lurkingforacure]

is that most are thinking "hey, I'm not putting MY personal $$$ into this when the federal govt. is going to fund it". From a strictly financial perspective, this makes sense, it also conveniently eliminates any risk, because it shifts all risk to the govt. who is funding the research.

Another thing investors might be thinking is well, since the govt. is funding this, I can go fund other projects. This is good, and bad. Good, because other projects get funded (hopefully PD ones) and bad, because yes, it reduces funding that was otherwise either already in place or being lined up.

I think many are waiting to see exactly what comes out of the ESC ban lift, as well.

Keep up the faith, and hope. We are not the only country working with stem cells, of all different kinds (ex.: Israel doesn't even have a moral issue with embryonic cells, so I'm thinking they are way ahead of everyone in this research, we just haven't heard about their work results yet).

[girija]

Paula,
here I go again giving my explanations!
I dont work with ES cells and am just putting together what I heard from my friends and colleagues.

With President Obama's EO, scientists are free to use federal money for ES cell work, but may not create new ones. What it means in the real sense for a lab working on both ES and non-ES work is an interesting one.

NIH funds pretty much run the academic labs and they pay or paid for several infrastructural facilities such as equipment, vivariums, core facilities that are essential for research, eg., microscope facilities, DNA, protein synthesis, sequencing, and much more. Now scientists can use all these "federally funded" facilities, services for ES work and do not have to segregate their limited resources for ES and non-ES work. Reagents and resources are shared between projects.

NIH also pays for undergraduate, graduate, post-doc and fellows salary via grants to Institutions, departments or groups of researchers. Now all these people are eligible to take on ES projects. The new grants to be funded by NIH will take care of specific reagents and some salaries etc., that are project specific.

The cost of creating an ES cell line is not much compared to maintaining the cell lines and what one does with them. This is an assumption on my part based on my limited experience with haemotopoietic stem cells and hamster embryo cells. I will verify the $$ numbers if you are interested!

In addition, collaborations become easier since most scientists have NIH grants rather than non-NIH grants.

These issues are not mentioned much in the news or openly by scientists who are celebrating President Obama's EO. So, here I go again........communication is important..blah..blah..............

Hope this helps in understanding the euphoria scientific community felt!


Girija



QUOTE=paula_w;479414]I wonder how many people realize that they need these private funds more than ever to make lines with these cells? Am I mistaken in thinking that Obama did the only thing that was legal -namely remove the date restrictions - making many more embryos available? The rest he gave to congress and the NIH to figure out?

Stem Cell Decision Worries Some Scientists
ANDREW POLLACK
Published: March 10, 2009
LOS ANGELES — While praised by scientists, President Obama’s decision to lift restrictions on federal financing of embryonic stem cell research could cause state governments and philanthropists to pull back on billions of dollars they have pledged for such work.


A number of states and philanthropies rushed in to fill the gap after President George W. Bush imposed the restrictions in 2001. California voters alone approved spending $3 billion over 10 years, making the state’s taxpayers the nation’s largest financial backers of the research.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/11/he...r=1&ref=health[/QUOTE]

Originally Posted by paula_w

I wonder how many people realize that they need these private funds more than ever to make lines with these cells? Am I mistaken in thinking that Obama did the only thing that was legal -namely remove the date restrictions - making many more embryos available? The rest he gave to congress and the NIH to figure out?

Stem Cell Decision Worries Some Scientists
ANDREW POLLACK
Published: March 10, 2009
LOS ANGELES — While praised by scientists, President Obama’s decision to lift restrictions on federal financing of embryonic stem cell research could cause state governments and philanthropists to pull back on billions of dollars they have pledged for such work.


A number of states and philanthropies rushed in to fill the gap after President George W. Bush imposed the restrictions in 2001. California voters alone approved spending $3 billion over 10 years, making the state’s taxpayers the nation’s largest financial backers of the research.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/11/he...r=1&ref=health

[paula_w]

Thanks to both of you girija and lfac. So the same people can create lines with private donations and do the rest of it with fed funds. Does that mean, and I don't expect an answer unless you have one, just thinking our loud, that labs will, as you say, collaborate or expand to include what is needed to work with both or even all 3 types of stem cells. Seem more worth it to people who are donating or investing.. I realize that not everyone knows how to do all the procedures without training.

i could still be off track thinking that all 3 could be together [still just thinking out loud], but that's what i think could be one goal that patients could help with [remember if you had 150 billion?] that's just a bit high...lol....we need a plan and we need to make sure it has oversight. Don't want it to go the way of banking and credit - unregulated and unsupervised.

You two are both very helpful and ...well just smart.....don't leave this forum until the cure please...or at least a great treatment! girija, i never even thought of just continuing with supply separation even tho i know they do it. and lfac, who wouldn't be nervous?

Dr. Craig Cady, cord blood researcher and either is or is going to be trained in iSP research in peoria, said if he had millions of dollars to spend, the first thing he would buy was a piece of equipment that cost something like 4 million. For one machine. So they would still need millions in private funding to get set up i would think.

i do understand scientists excitement. and i have tried to get behind escr- get my head around it. But there are so many reasons for me personally to not be able to. I have mostly just focused on other things, but am glad there is now at least a choice of what to support - even if it's just psychologically for the future. I am so tired from everything - this is not my best time of day - lol, as i say just about everyday, and i just need others to understand people like me in return. Just as religion was a threat to some, other ideaologies also force people to live with decisions from that ideaology and that is also a threat.

It all comes back to communication and the truth. Can we be the first to do it right? All stakeholders, no hate talk, honest communication, and even some humor tossed in. It wouldn't kill michael to come in and say a few word of encouragement once in awhile. i think we've earned it. But having Debi is having the whole pie....and i am grateful

ok that's it. I want to be free like the scientists feel....and i couldn't if i have to apologize for who or what I am.

i ate dinner here ...lol at which time my daughter informed me that she imay get married and is moving to Kissimee for a year.......high emotion...carey arriving tonight so was cleaning and trying to give my undivided attention to what she was saying. They are moving back and kissmee only about 45 min away - could be much worse...grandson is light of my life.

i am at the point where it's just the truth or nothing, that happens when you are where I am, but it truly is how i feel, not just left or right thinking. The hatred and blame of Bush does nothing for my trust or desire to support escr. I'm not a Bush supporter, but i see a guy who, in spite of his beliefs made some escr available and where are the results? i'm not asking with strong emotion or anger, truly. i want to understand this whole thing. i've quietly listened to statements that i do not believe are fully true for 8 yrs.....and i think people have been exploited and not given a choice of what to support with comfort. Instead people are strongly verbally abused for not supporting it, all the while being accused of being judgemental.

So this time around, i'm going to dig for the facts and speak honestly about the facts. i sincerely hope we can just put the left/right stuff completely off the table and together, watch dog the entire process as it unfolds. What is supposed to happen will happen. Just ignore the ones who, from either side are using hate or blame....it serves no purpose.

Instead, i want to know who is doing what, collaborating with whom, and we have a very good database to keep it in. .

So far that is happening here, but if you go to some of the other sites- they are battling over the ethics....we must work beyond that.

no condemnation,
paula

[girija]

Paula,
Yes, you did see my post. I was editing it and somehow managed to delete it. Just wanted to let you know!

I just wrote a long post in response to yours and it just disappeared right in front of my eyes! I guess I should stop right now!




girija

[paula_w]

Yes i saw it - and thanks for confirming that i wasn't seeing things!
paula

Originally Posted by girija

Paula,
Yes, you did see my post. I was editing it and somehow managed to delete it. Just wanted to let you know!

I just wrote a long post in response to yours and it just disappeared right in front of my eyes! I guess I should stop right now!




girija

[Curious]

I fixed it. Mods have magic buttons.

If it's past the time to edit girija, just send me a PM and we can get it done.

[vlhperry]

I have read some frustration, with well argued points, from Paula's post but no flaming or anger. I, too, have been subjected to angry posts about my position on escr. Since the majority have voted I have dropped the topic and let the chips fall where they may. Both science and other belief systems require faith. If science won out over other belief systems, let them have their time to prove themselves. It is the American way.

Please do not censor Paula's post. Expressing frustration should not be condemned.

Sincerely,
Vicky

[Curious]

Originally Posted by vlhperry

I have read some frustration, with well argued points, from Paula's post but no flaming or anger. I, too, have been subjected to angry posts about my position on escr. Since the majority have voted I have dropped the topic and let the chips fall where they may. Both science and other belief systems require faith. If science won out over other belief systems, let them have their time to prove themselves. It is the American way.

Please do not censor Paula's post. Expressing frustration should not be condemned.

Sincerely,
Vicky

It wasn't Vicky. No edits were done. Girija accidently deleted her own post. I restored it. She may have just wanted to edit in updated information or any typos that may have been there.

All opions are allowed as long they are done is a respectful manner. No flamming or pointing fingers. That type of thing.

This is a very sensitive subject. We understand not all believe the same things. As long as there is no argueing or it doesn't get too political, it can continue. It's being discussed on some of our other forums.

Good to see you posting.

[chasmo]

Originally Posted by vlhperry

I have read some frustration, with well argued points, from Paula's post but no flaming or anger. I, too, have been subjected to angry posts about my position on escr. Since the majority have voted I have dropped the topic and let the chips fall where they may. Both science and other belief systems require faith. If science won out over other belief systems, let them have their time to prove themselves. It is the American way.

Please do not censor Paula's post. Expressing frustration should not be condemned.

Sincerely,
Vicky

Welcome back VIcky!!!

Charlie