[Synnove]

Is there anyone here that has any experience with the relations between arthritis ( osteo and/or rheumatoid) and developement of neuropathy?

Does any one have any links to good articles?

Thanks
Synnove

[Dr. Smith]

Other than having both (PN & OA)?

I guess it never really occurred to me except that both are PITAs, but now that you mention it...

osteoarthritis and peripheral neuropathy

rheumatoid arthritis and peripheral neuropathy

psoriatic arthritis and peripheral neuropathy

reactive arthritis and peripheral neuropathy

Doc

[mcmars]

Originally Posted by Synnove

Is there anyone here that has any experience with the relations between arthritis ( osteo and/or rheumatoid) and developement of neuropathy?

Does any one have any links to good articles?

Thanks
Synnove

I searched this subject a few weeks back as I was curious about the relationship. I know my feet have very bad PN which started about 15 years ago, about 5-6 years ago prior to my RA diagnosis. When I used to teach beginners skiing and had a lot of standing around wearing tight ski boots, I would have to remove my boots and rub my feet due to extreme pain. Was fine when actually skiing, but would get a lot of pain on long lift lines. Thought it was just a tight boot thing, but now I get the foot pain just wearing flip flops or lying in bed. Mayo docs suggested PN.

I can understand how inflammation and swelling can cause nerve entrapments by pinching nerves. What I question is if some of the nerve pain is from Rheumatoid Vasculitis actually messing w blood flow to nerves or some other mechanism. Not a whole lot on the net on this subject. I remember when I was first diagnosed asking my 2nd Rheumatologist ( who was the worst rheumy I ever experienced) about if some of the nerve pain might be due to rheumatoid vasculitis. He says, " you have not had RA long enough, that is late stage". Few months later at Mayo Rochester brilliant Rheumy says, "You have longstanding RA". I had just been diagnosed 6 months before mayo visit.

So I would like to know if and how RA vasculitis might be responsible for various types of nerve damage as I also have a twitch disorder that has perplexed the neuro docs and most rheumies deny any connection w RA. Funny how the twitch got better after I got on Enbrel. Mayo neuro doc said it was from an autoimmune process, either from hasimotos or RA.

[Synnove]

Dr. Smith.
Thank you for those links. I now have some reading to look up on.
Yes, both arthiritis and neuropathy is terrible. Dr. Smith, what do you use to treat the neuropathy pain?

mcmars
My rheumatologist has just now come to the conclution at my recent office visit with her: Diagnosis Leucocytoclastic Vasculitis with inflamatory Arthritis and Small Fiber Neuropathy. " I suspect possible seronegative rheumatoid arthritis with initial presentation of sensory neuropathy"
Regarding your question re. vasculitis: I think that having vasculitis, will over some time cause "starvation" to the small nerve fibers, and cause small fiber neuropathy.
With me, the symptoms has become worse over time, and there is a "burning pain" everywhere.
I also went to the Mayo Clinic last year. The neurologist there confirmed the small fiber neuropathy. She also did the Autonomic Reflex study, which turned out positive on the sweat study.
If the Vit B12 is not absorbed in the stomach, you can use Methyl B 12, which can be bought in specialty store. Mrs. D on the neuropathy forum told me about that.
Having autonomic neuropathy makes just an extra difficulty for us to deal with.

[Synnove]

Hi again.
I just wanted to add something:
I think it is possible that one can have theese autoimmune disorders sort of "hanging around" or "lurking around" for a long time before they turn out with symptoms.
With me for example, I had positive ANA, then negative, then higher positive again. Then one day, all kinds of different symptoms and problems brake loose.
I have a 12 year old history of herniated cervical disc, and at that time MRIshowed "degenerated disc disease, and spondylosis, as well as left arm radiculopathy. For those of us that are so "lucky" as to have had received such a "price" as peripheral neuropathy, the chances are we have had other conditions for a long time.
Now, 2 years with neuropathy, symptoms are showing up like swollen red joints with migratory pain. X-Rays shows degenerative joint disease.
So, yes, I think we are experiencing some relations between arthritis and neuropathy. On my EMG and NCS, it showed up with entrapment neuropathy in the form of Carpal Tunnes Syndrome.
Almost 2 years ago now, I had an episode of sudden extreeme pain in left arm. I never realy usually complain. I usually refer to "the pain scale" that if it is # 10, then it is the kind of pain in reference to child birth. And this was a # 10. The spinal/ortho doctor said it was a "Brachial Neuritis".
So it was all down hill from there on.
And, as I said, now my joints are starting to join the party.
My rheumatologist is a good one. She too, goes by her "instints". Just as nurses, we know something does not look right. She is good in examining, she listen to her patient, and she investigates all the different aspects she can think of. Almost all my blood work, and I have had a lot repeated over and over again, comes out negative. The ANA, has gone up and down a bit. Joints are swelling, I have vasculitic rash on skin, I have hair loss, I have receding gums,( now requiring gum transplant) I have RA nodules under the skin, I have nodules in lungs, I have a bilateral bronchial web stenosis, tightening in the chest, (with pain), CAD, and my GI system is not working due to gastrophoresis (due to autonomic neuropathy?)
So my conclusion is, I think all theese things are related, in a way or another. Often if one has one autoimmune disease, one can often also have another.
Take care, and thanks for reading

[Dr. Smith]

Originally Posted by Synnove

Dr. Smith, what do you use to treat the neuropathy pain?

I think much of the PN pain is obscured by the DDD, stenosis, OA, etc. and relegated to nuisance status. I'm fortunate that the burning pain is pretty much controlled by R-Lipoic Acid (RLA) and Pantothenic Acid (B5).

While multiple doctors/tests say I'm not pre/diabetic, etc., my neuropathy seems to think (responds as if) I am, so I listen to my body and humor it (eat as if I were diabetic—no sugar, white starches).

The OA however is more difficult—I have IBS, and NSAIDs cause bleeding.

Doc

[Synnove]

Dr. Smith.
Fallowing a diabetic diet always sounds like a good healthy idea.

The neurologist who diagnosed me with the neuropathy, did the usual neuropathy panel of long list of blood tests, including Glucose Tolerence Test. It was normal, bur this doctor insisted that " any time the glucose goes above 140, you will have nerve damage.' So my 1 hour result was within normal at 178 by the labs standard range. being < 200.
Hgb A1C and FBS has been normal. BUT, I will keep an eye on this.

So, I understand what you mean by keeping blood glucose level normal.

I have heared about the R-Lipoic Acid. But I have not been able to find it.
I take Lyrica and Amitripthyline. Would like to lower the doses and perhaps try some of the suplements.
I do take Methyl B 12, vit D and CO Q 10.

So you have Degenerative Disc Disease. Where? Lumbar? Yes, this can also cause a lot of consern with radiculapathies and all sorts of nerve pain

I have C 6-7 herniation and degenerative disch disease

[Dr. Smith]

Originally Posted by Synnove

I have heared about the R-Lipoic Acid. But I have not been able to find it.

We didn't even bother looking. We get most of our supplements online anyway, so order it from whoever has the best overal deal whenever it's time to order something.

So you have Degenerative Disc Disease. Where? Lumbar?

Cervical & lumbar. My whole spine is shot (severe OA) & needs replacement. AFAIK the DDD could be thoracic as well; nobody has bothered imaging it. The cervical vertebrae have begun autofusing, which is has its good & bad points—just wish I'd had a little more control over how/where it fused. Trying to influence that as much as possible (posture & positioning) from here on.

Doc

[Anaberration]

Originally Posted by Synnove

Is there anyone here that has any experience with the relations between arthritis ( osteo and/or rheumatoid) and developement of neuropathy?

Does any one have any links to good articles?

Thanks
Synnove

No. But I do suffer from OA and SFSN. No relationship known in my case, although it's "possible, but not likely" a drug used to treat the OA "could, but not likely" cause the SFSN. There's like 498 "known" things that could cause SFSN.L8r's.