I know you are a formidable mom and you will get to the bottom of this.

As the child gets older and hormones start to kick emotions is time to get teachers to learn about feelings and to teach charges how to deal with them and not sweep them, literally, under the (rug), in this case, table.

If, in any situation, Vince is telling the truth (ruling out the chances that "she said that in my head") and I have no doubt that he is, there is ways to deal with feelings without hugs or touching (Right, Keg)) just spend a few minutes relating with comments about life is tough, life is not fair, the problem is not yours (in some cases) and you have to realize that some people never will acknowledge wrongdoing (like a politician when being confronted: deny,denied, avoid, blame the victim, etc.).

I remember when the autistics had good caregivers and when one would have a "bad moment" the caregiver would stop him and talk very calmly, soothing the autistic, saying nice words and then a few jokes until the autistic smiled, all done quietly the others and some parents hardly would noticed. Now is considered an "anxiety attack" and given an Ativan

I know you will overcome this, but is time to face the problem of some people of authority, grown ups, not able to feel for others. You have already created a embracing home where your children can express their feelings without being putting down as weaklings. That's important.

Isabelle, I agree, in fact part of what has helped Vincent's aggression over the summer, was me telling him it was ok to cry but not ok to hit, etc etc... so he started crying at the beginning of his rages instead of at the end, and this avoided his aggression. BTW we are still reducing his meds, other than strattera. I'm hoping by 2007, the paxil and risperdal will be gone all together. However, I'm assuming he will need something to sleep *sigh*

Keg, I totally plan to address it, and haa haa about my flooring quote.

Peta, glad you liked 'JungleJugs'...you might have missed JungleButt and one or two others I can't think of. You always give bad nicknames to the ones you love, right? Right! You'd said "Mili - let me get this right - you dont want this woman around your Vince if she comes clean and admits what happened. and you dont want her about him if she says if didnt happen - So why are you even asking her?"

Cause I'm believing there's a lot in between those possibilities. I'm dealing so far with Vincent's perception only. He's 10, he's autistic, so I have to hear her perception. I'm holding out hoping it's a matter of a completely different perception on both their parts - have you ever been in situations where both sides are 'true', but neither side understands what is true for the other.

I've done or said things to benefit or compliment Vince that he thought I was trying to be 'mean'. But, now that I've let her know HIS perception, I want to see not just her explanation but how she treats the whole situation. I mean, I have to take it ALL in first, then I can process and form a conclusion. I think lots of my conclusions are 'gut feeling' too. Anyhow, I just have to wait. But in the two scenarios above, it is true, I would not want her with him cause that would mean she's either a liar that's got a short temper with kids, or a truthful person with a short temper with kids.

Ok, taking a break from my floor project. Someone reeeeeally loved using their staple gun...these friggin things are almost 2" long, and so help me there is scarcely a square inch of floor that doesn't have one in it. Good thing is, the kids are too busy to get in any trouble - well as much trouble as usual I mean.

Mili

Okay well that all makes sence.

Apart from the floor bit. I thought you had already damn near renovated and redecorated your house from top to bottom. Are you on the second time around redoing everything?

Puppy waking me most mornings at 5 am. Forgot what it was like to have a baby in the house.

JungleJugs???

ROFLOLOLOLOLOL!!!

You need a bra made out of leopard skin cloth and straps of vine.

Funny you should mention that... I just so happen to have a brand new one right here...

just kidding.

But as soon as I lose the rest of this weight, the leopard print is all mine.

Hey McButterButt!

I was wondering when the heck you were going to respond to my 'name calling' with a good old fashion rofl or lol.

Moldy

Ok, got a response...


As a mother I can appreciate how upsetting it is to think that your
child was upset and not comforted. I appreciate your concerns and I'm
not surprised that Vince told you about his day in the way that he did.
Vince was in art class at the beginning of the day and early in the
class, I saw Mrs. XXX standing outside the art room. I asked what was
wrong and she said the Vince was upset and acting depressed and she
couldn't get him out of the room. I got him out of the art room by just
motioning for him to come and told him that I was sorry he was sad - I
gave him a great deal of empathy, but suggested that crying in art class
was disturbing to the other students and that when we are in 5th grade,
we cry in a more private place. - I did NOT say 5th graders do not cry
- I said they should not cry in art class when other students are trying
to work, but I understand that Vince may have missed that message. I
do care about Vince - and wanted his dignity to be preserved as well as
to have him know that he is cared for. Mrs. XXX was present when I said
these things. Vince continued about how he wants to put his head on
Mrs. XXX lap and that she was mean. I took Vince down to our room, I
listened and empathized with him for a while and then he sat and read
some books before we worked. He was perfectly calm and happy. I took
over for Mrs. XXX for a while to see how he would react to another adult.
And he did just fine - no crying, no depression. We even did some work.
He was fine until Mrs. XXX returned and then his discussion about sadness
resumed. I had other students to work with, but I observed Vince
working with another SEA, Mrs. ZZZZ without any depression/tears.

By the afternoon, it became clear to us that Vince was able to refocus
his sadness. I'm not saying it was intentional - I just do know that he
was able to refocus. We were working alone in the room and Vince was
resisting doing work. I give him one row (about 7 problems) of simple
addition to do. He began speaking about my sadness- asking about my
family members who died - I asked him to finish the math and offered him
a time to talk after his work was done which would have taken about a
minute or two. He called me "an idiot" among other things. His
engine was running a bit high and I asked him to go under the table with
his pillows - a comforting place for him - or to put his head down -
another calming action for him. He told me he was going to tell you
that I didn't care, etc and that I would be in big trouble with you. He
said you would "take me out". I ignored all this and suggested again
that he go under the table or put his head down. After a few minutes of
Vince continuing to vent anger at me, he finally went under the table
with his pillows. After about 7 minutes he was calm. After he
apolgized, we talked about his sadness for about 7 minutes. He ended
the discussion - I didn't. I told him I was sorry if he felt that he
wasn't being heard - we shook hands and went back to work. He was just
fine and continued to be fine through the end of the day.

Regarding the hugging: Vince is having some difficulties learning about
appropriate touching. He likes to stroke Mrs. XXX hair, her arm, etc.
We are trying to teach Vince about boundaries and appropriateness so
that he will be continue to be an appropriate, respectful male. I do
not recall him asking me for a hug so I can't speak to that issue, but
I did support Vince's sadness in other ways. I gave Vince attention,
sympathy, empathy and caring. I gave him a safe, private place to voice
his feelings. I also helped him set boundaries and to learn about
appropriateness in public settings. He was emotionally supported during
his difficulties. The entire team of people that work with Vince care
about him and show him that daily. However, we must also teach Vince
self-calming strategies which is what I was trying to do when I asked
him to go under the table with his pillows or to put his head down.

I'm glad you wanted clarification on this. I agree that no one should
walk away feeling that they are not cared about, but I also believe that
we did all we could to let Vince know that we do care. Caring is letting
a child know he/she is important to you and it is also helping a child
set boundaries. He did tell me he was going to tell you all about how
awful I am so you could harm me, but then he apologized and said that it
was great to be able to talk to me.

And to further clarify, the pillows and going under the table are
techniques that were used last year. This technique had very positive
results last year as did putting his head down. It is not a punishment,
but rather an opportunity for Vince to regain self-control and dignity.


I hope this answers your questions and concerns. I do not for a minute
question Vincent's sincerity and honesty - I think that when his engine
is running high, his perceptions are not always accurate as they are
charged with emotions. If there is anything you know of that is making
him sad (it doesn't seem to be school based - it seems to be focused on
death), please let us know so together we can help him deal with his
feelings. I hope we continue to earn your support for our work with
Vincent and that we can work together in his behalf.

I would be worried about the physical aspect of having him go under the table. Sounds pretty unusual, and especially that it was a punishment for expressing emotion. Is it a time out spot or what?

So, I'm thinking ok, now I see a different picture, a different perception. So, I wrote this:

I'd like to walk Vince into school tomorrow so he can share his perceptions with you, and visa versa. I can see only potential disaster for him to try and complete his school day other wise. I'll be there only so he feels supported, as well as to support staff so he doesn't become disrespectful, and to help him to be quiet and hear your perspective.

After that, if you or I feel we need to talk without Vincent present, we can go from there and arrange a good time. Could you please print and bring the email I sent to you, so you can address the things Vince said with him in case he forgets to mention an issue, so we can be done with it and not have any forgotten issues resurfacing throughout his day. Also, please bring (so you don't forget) the inappropriate things he did and said that he really should have control over.

I hope all of that sounds reasonable. My goal always is a mutually clear perception, and the ability to work together to get Vince to where he needs to be. I'm not a bit interested in finger pointing or blame, which serves nothing productive for Vince.

Part of this situation seems to be Vince attempting to play on adult against another. So, while I understand that is a part of development, and understand and am pleased he is developing, calling you names and threatening that I will harm you or 'take you out' is completely out of the realm of acceptable.

As for his 'death' questions, I would guess that is due to our wonderful dog of over 15 years doing so poorly, and me preping the kids as I know she won't be around much longer - should her new meds not work, she might have a week. She's had a good and long life, there's nothing sad about her death, the sadness is in her current pain and lack of quality of life.

(my name)