pdoc session, part 2
 

Thanks guys...

i am ok... and less overwhelmed, or more accurately, less intoxicated, than when i first posted. i only managed to sleep only maybe 3 hours because we have the techs here today overhauling our chimneys. had to get up at 7, ugh, still feeling the alcohol somewhat... yuck! :o fortunately i had the good sense to drink several glasses of water last night so no headache.

ok so what else happened.

ah yes. we talked about my twistedness... my reaction to the jaws movies... and voiced my concerns that maybe this isn't depression but something else. he said that aggression is always present in depression, and that it is usually turned inwards ... expressed as guilt, self-loathing etc. well i have those. but he said sometimes it is also expressed outwards... that it was not so surprising. also that it was not unusual to see a passive appreciation of violence in depression in persons for whom it would otherwise uncharacteristic. in sum, he feels my experience is consistent with depression, even if it is different than other depressions i have had.

i showed pdoc my fingers... which are ripped and jagged and bleeding. he looked at them intently and then said wow you are destroying your hands. we talked about it. it is something i've done before, but it does come about with nervousness, and he feels this is aggravated with the Zoloft-induced activation.

i also told him i've been more inclined to drink lately (until recently had had an aversion to it!) and he asked what i get out of it. it calms me... :o i also told him about the lorazepam-with-beer-chasers the other day, and that i subsequently restarted the longer acting benzo at night, especially hoping it will help with the fingers. he said that sounds appropriate.

------------

i didn't ask about increasing the Zoloft because i am noticing a difference, albeit in patches, so i should see how far this dose gets me. don't want to push my luck and end up manic. it's actually a very short distance between feeling ok and going over the top with an AD and i am already playing with fire taking it without a stabilizer. or maybe i do want to, sort of. i was thinking today that i am longing to feel euphoric... it would be so refreshing... but i realize i would end up doing stupid stuff i'd and end up feeling ashamed with good reason... sigh.

i have been considering to what extent there are mixed features... i have a much, much greater energy level now than with typical depression and the Zoloft is contributing to that. the energy is inconstant, and more helpful than not, but it does also express as boisterousness, elevated irritability and quicker-temper than usual. i get exasperated very fast. no patience. i also have elevated mental energy... which is possibly more preoccupying in terms of mixed mood. but so far nothing too worrisome, methinks.

re-reading this post, i am hearing more activation than i perceive in myself, directly.

~ waves ~

You really think things out Waves. THis is something I admire
about you.

Donna:grouphug:

i am confused. why don't you want to take a mood stabilizer? Are you relying too much on alcohol? I don't know if i should have written that because my depression won't go away and I am considering alcohol as a crutch and screw diabetes and all the medical warnings.
love
bobby

Dear Bobby

there's reasons i need a break from the Depakote. it's medical and personal i don't want to explain further.

no i don't think i'm relying on alcohol i went overboard once. before that i overdid the beer (2) on one day. period.

that is an indication that restarting the benzo is probably good idea.

love

~ waves ~

It sounds like you had a really good session with him.
yeah the trouble with alcohol is that it makes us less inhibited, and more likely to be impulsive, hypo manias evil sister.
((((((HUGS))))))
bizi

Bobby,
I thought that people used alcohol to lower agitation.
I thought alcohol made depression worse.

But what do I know??
I'm pretty sure my un'dx'd bipolar-ish brother uses it when he wants to come down.
Make I'll check with him the next time we talk.


M.

Dear Waves,

I'm concerned about your fingers.
. . . interesting that they are a visible manifestation of your mood.

This is useful.

Yuck. . . . hearing that you are experiencing depression in a new form. The usual forms are bad enough as far as I know.

Your talks with your pdoc cover a great deal of ground.

My pdoc appointment goes like this:
-he asks how I am doing
-I say fine
-he asks about something general like my work
-I mumble and tell him that the medications are fine and what 'scripts I need for next time.

-Somewhere in between all of that he might tell me a story about his diet, his daughter, his wife, a place he used to work. . . . . . . .


M.

Dear Mari

my pdoc is both my prescribing psychiatrist and my therapist. all our sessions are 1 hour, not the 15 mins most people have with prescribing pdocs.

last time i had a lot of things going on and it was more an extended psychiatric/medical consultation more than talk therapy. we covered an extraordinary amount of ground compared to how it usually goes.

usually it is much more dilute... me rambling about something or other... sometimes we spend a good half hour sort of "chatting" or even joking and on some sort of digression.

~ waves ~

Dear Bobby and Mari - and Bizi

i have replied to both your posts regarding alcohol in the Alcohol Awareness thread. i hope that is ok. here are the direct links to the posts - i quoted each of your posts in my replies, for context:

to Bobby: http://neurotalk.psychcentral.com/post693556-14.html

to Mari: http://neurotalk.psychcentral.com/post693557-15.html

i find it useful to have those observations collected in one place.

Bizi i just saw your post - am replying now, also in the alcohol thread.... :o

sorry if i am a pain in the a... it is sometimes a difficult subject for me to talk about here there and everywhere... because it can be scary. sometimes i get very ashamed and do not want to deal with it.

having the discussion in its own thread, it is easier for me to avoid/ignore it when i need to, without also having to avoid the ton of other concerns i am having with depression, medication, health, etc that i am piling into this thread.

~ waves ~

Oops
 

what with the only 3 hours of sleep and getting up early to have our chimney worked on ... kitchen covered over and drilled, heater pulled out (last night)...

i forgot all about my Zoloft this morning!!! :( that's 2ce in a week. it ain't gonna work if i keep forgetting it.

this upheaval was very stressful today, and in the middle i got a call from the consultant saying he's gonna put me in for a Java job on a newer platform and to study... :eek: throughout this, some emotional stuff that hits home has built up. today things kinda took a strange turn and i went from "just" very worried, to feeling completely powerless and party to something destructive, that i am going to have to step out of... :(

i am quite upset by now. and have to get up early tomorrow again.

i just took a full milligram of my benzo, instead of a half.... :o

~ waves ~

Dear waves,

Kudos for you and your pdoc !! :hug:

Im happy to hear Zoloft is starting to help you !! :hug: Silly dperession... So sorry about your fingers though !! :hug: Take care of them !!!

When are you having your tests for the heart ??

And, about the Java stuff, please, dont sress yourslef now !! Perhaps you should forget about everything at least while you feel better ??

Sending you love !!

And... hoping the complete benzo worked !!! Sleep, sleep, sleep !!!

hello dear Majo

well here i still am and still uptight.

i think i might take some ambien. :o i have 5 hours to sleep it off... not great... but might be ok... dunno... :o maybe would be better off with a few more drops of the benzo, or some lorazepam.

the heart tests are tbd... i have to go to my gp and get requests, then book appts.... it's going to cost money and pdoc seemed to think it was important before running but otherwise he didn't seem to be toooo concerned... so i am going to wait... we have some other medical expenses in the family and i don't want those to be put off.

meantime, i will try to get out and walk sort of "aggressively" with the mind set that it is a "necessary preparation phase" to running again.

~ waves ~

I am worried about you waves....
The last couple of days sound intense to me, for you,
please be careful.
(((((((HUGS)))))

I agree with bizi hun, dont push yourself too much !!! Try to relax !

:hug:

i just fell apart.

i've been crying my eyes out.

a tiny tiny should-be-insignificant thing happened... i knew it was intended as a funny, intellectually, but emotionally i just fell apart... i keep stopping and restarting crying.... :(

~ waves ~

I am so sorry.
(((((((((((((((((((((((hugs))))))))))))))))))))))) )
I am sorry I wasn't here for you, we could have chatted.
love you
bizi

Dear Waves,
I'm sorry. Lots of hugs.
:hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug:

I hope you get some good sleep.
M.

Aaaaaaaaaarrrrghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!
 

i just woke up.

hardly any sleep 3 hours, maybe less but i'm not going to check my system log to find out... i don't want to know. i didn't take the ambien because i hemhawed too much and then didn't have enough time to sleep it off. i bawled on and off for at least an hour.

now there are 3 men here, banging clanging thumping drilling and sawing my house to smithereens again......... :( i have earplugs in... the chimney people and the heater/furnace guy is here with the new heater/furnace they are all debating loudly about the placement of wires for fittings etc etc with my mom in the mix BLA BLA BLA

my parents and i are all piled up in the living room, along with the kitchen furniture.... :o

i hope to goodness this is over by afternoon. i just want to curl up and sleep... better yet if i keeled over and died.

~ waves ~

Oh dear heavens!

This is really crummy.
'Soooo sorry that you did not get some proper sleep.
'Hoping very much that the men with the attendant noise are going to wrap things up and be gone soon.

This really stinks. :Heart: I wish that I could help you.
M.

6 hours later
 

they are gone.

i napped very interruptedly on the couch (which isn't long enough to stretch out) the entire time they were here... yes i felt stupid but i was so wiped out and disgusted with everything that i preferred to lie there feeling stupid than sit up and be even marginally involved.

and NOWWW.... my mother is grumbling and bustling about how they did this or that and cleaning up after them. that initially involved turning on big obnoxious lights (highbeam type things). now, she cleaning the tops of the cupboards with the dreaded-by-my-respiratory-system "degreaser."

i could kill whoever invented these damn degreasers. when i was little we used Dettol (British) and later 409 and when i was older i used Pinesol and that worked fine and didn't asphyxiate me... these new and more "powerful" products make me CHOKE... and my mom says but they work BETTERRRRRRGHHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAHHHHhhh.... :Bawling:

it will be over soon. it will. it will be over. i said i would go to the grocery store today. (walk) i am so out of it. but i'm starting to wonder if it might not be the lesser evil (better air?) but i am literally only sitting up courtesy of caffeine... slightly lightheaded don't want to even stick my head out the door just wanna conk out. haven't eaten this morning and not hungry. i lose my appetite entirely when i dont' sleep. (and if i eat, i don't digest well - it's like my stomach hibernates or something).

it will be over it will be over it will be overrrrrrrrrrrrrrggggggggggghhhhhhhhhh!!!!! :mad::(

(((Mari))) thank you.

~ waves ~

Dear Waves,
I've slept in the middle of the room with workman too. It is the best way to try to ignore them.
I hope that the caffeine helped you and that you were able to get on with your day.

I wish that she would honor your requests to get rid of those toxic products.

Is this the second night in a row that you did not get your normal sleep" (I could go back and read but I don't remember . . . . . think I should put on some tea so I can get some caffeine.)

M.

sorry you are having such a rough time
love
bobby

To Bobby
 

Bobby,

If turning to alcohol isn't automatic for you, please don't start again. Don't allow it to become habit.
It does make depression worse- and also intensifies anxiety when your body recovers from it. You already know what the risks are for diabetics.

Sure, alcohol is used by many to calm down during manias; but I think it's really an unconscious thing because of lowered inhibitions.
Alcohol is also used during periods of depression as a way to escape- relief from those nagging thoughts and troubles.
Some people even use alcohol as a way of self-punishment because of feelings of worthlessness and self-loathing and the alcohol actually helps perpetuate those same feelings.

All this is just how I evaluate these kind of behaviors based on my own experiences with alcohol, living with a family full of alcoholics, and excerpts from nursing and psychology texts.

I hope you feel better soon.
((((HUGS))))
Kay

To Waves
 

Dear Waves,

I wouldn't have been able to be down there with those workers on a good day. I probably would have either stayed in my room or bought a magazine/taken a book and left the house to go anywhere else (a coffee shop, a bench outside, etc). And I definitely wouldn't be able to tolerate the smell of a heavy degreaser.

I'm sorry, but I don't know what's going on with your hands...
Please correct me if I'm wrong, and I'm sorry if I am wrong....
But I've been assuming you're escaping by rubbing, picking, or something. I think I already mentioned that I sit in the mirror and pick at my face, but when I was little I used to rub my fingertips a lot and got calluses. My mother made me put heavy creams and clean white socks on my hands. The alcohol is definitely an escape for me.
I've been trying to read large print books, I'm always googling something or other, and play online games (right now free slots) as a distraction. I'm not depressed right now, but I always have plenty of unpleasant thoughts and things weighing on me.

So what if this guy is submitting your resume. You haven't been offered a job yet, and you could always find a way out if you didn't feel healthy enough if it happened. Also, the hiring process takes time and they may not want you to start right away. Don't worry about that now.

Try to find a healthier distraction. And hang in there! Don't be embarrassed here- I thought this site was hear so we could share our feelings.

:hug:
Kay

oh waves,
I am sorry for all of the comotion at your house it sounded dreadful.
I am hoping that you find the strenght to get out of the house for some fresh air and a bit of a distraction.
I am sorry it is so hard right now....
bizi

Thanks everyone...

i am doing a little better now. i went to the store, so i didn't have to breathe the fumes. and then i made dinner, acting very territorial about the kitchen while i was cooking, so that i could sort of semi-isolate. :o

Mari... yes, this was my second night at 3 hours of sleep, and yesterday was even messier than today, all day, in my house - but less loud. :o well, they are done now. now the parents just have to finish freaking out and measuring things and adjusting thiings... sigh.

~ waves ~

To Kay
 

Hi Kay,

i have always bitten my fingers - since i was a kid. it's pure nerves, not so much distraction. i stop or at least improve, but when i get nervous it creeps back, and it tends to snowball - the worse it gets, the worse it gets. right now, it's bad. i just have to try and reel it in as best i can. :o i have a few tricks up my sleeve that help... but so far i'm not succeeding. it can take time.

i do not have my own room, or you can bet i would have been in it - with the door locked. i sleep/live in the living room. :o

~ waves ~

Waves,

I'm sorry you don't have your own space right now. I've been there many times in the past, too. It can be a trying situation.

My husband is a picker, too. He's always bitten his nails, and his picking was mainly isolated to his back. I don't know how he gets to those spots, but he's afraid to show his back because of the scars. Now he's gotten into picking his arms. He's embarrassed by the evidence, but can't stop reopening the wounds.

The new pdoc told me that my picking, hair twirling, and mindlessly searching the internet was probably OCD. She said they were escapist behaviors, and even asked, "you feel better while doing it, don't you?"

I have periods when I'm very good about not picking my face, but once I start again, I can't stop. I always had my ways of hiding it, especially using a very hot face cloth over my face for several minutes followed by cold water. Now I'm starting to show scars and can't hide it anymore.

I hope that you're tricks will help you.
I'm sorry you've been in so much pain. It will end. Just hang in there.
:hug:
Kay

Sorry Waves

I am just finally catching up again. I really feel for you not having your
own room. I sure wish i had a clue how to help you with that problem.

Donna

relieved... no job
 

relieved.

the contractor guy did not call back. which means i don't have to hit the ground zooming(?) for the 3-week project-wrap-up contract starting this monday. (that's what the Java would have been for, and that's why he suggested i read - which, like, yearrright.)

the deal here is i just do not want to tell him no when he tosses something my way, because i am not ready to burn bridges.

Dear Kay, i don't know if munching my fingers is a compulsion but it could be and if so maybe the Zoloft will help eventually. and an SSRI could help you in that regard also - Zoloft and other SSRI's are used for OCD right.... it takes longer to show benefit in that regard, than it does for depression. 8-12 weeks for treating obssessive thinking and compulsions.

i really don't do anything to hide it. i mean i don't go and purposely shove it in people's faces, but it's not always conscious so i sometimes find myself trimming away in public ... oh well. :rolleyes:

thanks Donna, for the kind thoughts. :hug:

~ waves ~

when I was chewing on my cuticles so badly once about 7 years ago, I asked for annafrinil or something like that. and doctor prescribed prozac instead. Which I told him no, that I was afraid that would make me manic (and then sceduled a next appointment 4 months out!!!!)...and that is what happened, I stopped chewing on myself though....that is the time that I bought 2 cars in 3 weeks....
I found a new pdoc.

Dear Bizi

i've never taken Prozac but Paxil made me manic but it was early in my dx and all the meds were new... i was to call pdoc for anything odd - i called him after 5 days of not sleeping and laughing my hide off - he d/c'd it and increased my carbamazepine. brought me down before i did any major damage... only bought walgreens out of dove dark and probably tons of candles and earrings... :rolleyes: (no cars or paintings that time).

i am scared of Prozac because of the long half life - hard to adjust dose in a hurry if you need to.

Zoloft and Celexa have both made me hypo on a regular basis but pdoc was also my therapist and i saw him 2ce a week, so he'd tweak my meds pronto.

~ waves ~

It is nice being able to post again...forums have been sporatic....
yes paxil also made me manic but that is not really fair as I was already in a mixed mood when that was started.
I have taken welbutrin in the past half a dose which did not really help me or notice, stopped it, I would consider this again if need be in the futre.
this cold has held me at bay all week end...hate being sick.
bizi

Hi,
It is good to see you two posting. . .. .miss the forums when they are down.
'Sorry that you have been sick, Bizi.
Mari

Hi there... yes good to be back in business... i see DocJohn has the chat back up again too - it wasn't yesterday, and then today it was spewing out an error message between the open/close paren, where it usually shows the number of people active in chat :D.

good to see you too Mari... i have been busy doing repetitive type work today. nothing energetic but i am strangely extremely tired, keep having coffee, still can't shake it... i need to be a caffeine IV drip ... sigh. :o

:grouphug:

~ waves ~

dear waves, the past few days have been emotional for you right? that could be why you are tired.
((((HUGS))))
bizi who is sipping hot fluids....

Dear Bizi

i hope you feel better soon! :hug:

~ waves ~

First,

Bizi I hope you feel better soon too. Keep drinking all those liquids.

Next, Wave's can I ask if you could start to look at Java anyway to
see if its something you could be into learning. For next time its
a suggestion.


I have to tell you guys this threads title has given me a laugh as
I look at it every time I go to open it.

I keep thinking it is me that is going on Zoloft. Sorry, just my
brain being silly.

donna

Dear Donna

i am experienced in Java. it's a specific platform i don't have experience in and reading isn't gonna do a whole lot for me... i pick up stuff on the fly i am not worried about it... but the guy says "read up" i'm not gonna argue, i just said, sure, absolutely ... :rolleyes: (whatever floats his boat.... :rolleyes:)

that's funny about the thread title... that you read it in first person...

when i read the beginning of the sentence, just that it made you laugh what i thought you were going to say is that it's chockfulla all kindsa other nuts in here... it really it should be called something like, waves is going on zoloft, battling with unemployment, and pondering life the universe and everything including the kitchen sink (or kitchen heater, more accurately!) ;):D

~ waves ~

Waves,
I was on zoloft for many years & was certainly picking during this time.
My AD is effexor right now.
The new pdoc says I have OCD. Not surprising, but I hate to officially add another psych dx to my list.

Bizi and Waves: I hope you both feel better soon! I'll send some good thoughts your way.

-Kay