Dear Brainpatch,

i hope it's ok i'm starting a new thread for you on this as there may be quite a few responses, and some dialog if you have questions to add or others have questions about the situation.

EVERYONE: Brainpatch is requesting information regarding bipolar, specifically as might be applicable in the situation described here:

reposting response from Mari:

hi Brain Patch

first if your friend is an adult there is not much you can do unless she is willing OR - if she is a danger to herself or others (suicidal or violent).

yes there are loads of medications, depending on her particular symptoms the key is getting her into medical care.

the type of doctor you need is a psychiatrist, if possible, a personable one. In terms of qualifications, see if there is one who specializes in affective disorders and/or psychopharmacology. She has to be willing to go, and also to take medications.

for the alcohol and drug use. the doctor will suggest a course of action based on her specific needs. it will partly depend on what drugs she uses and how much alcohol.

i have used alcohol and other before dx and after and when i was being re-put on meds. in this last case, i was just drinking very heavily and knew i was out of control - i was having regular black outs for the first time in my life (and i haven't had them since that period, yuck!), which i had never had before, nor since! yet, i was kept outpatient and told once the meds were settled, i would be able to stop drinking. three docs told me that, of which 2 were psychiatrists and the third a very very scrupulous GP. whatever. culture here is different too. i'd bet my socks (only thing i've got a lot of ) that my former pdoc would have planted me in rehab if i had gone to him drinking like i was this time. it took me a long time to resolve that on my own, after my meds were supposedly "ok." and rehab, however expensive, would have been cheaper and kinder to my person than what i did, which was to drink my savings away and with them all hope of independence.

i landed on my butt, which is better than on my face or pushing up the daisies, but with multiple substances it is realllly messy. imho, if she is willing to do rehab, that would be best. however, nobody can force an adult, not you or the doc.

if she's willing, you'd need a facility that can look after BOTH her psychiatric needs AND her abuse issues because in any facility she will not have access to substances, so those issues must be medically addressed, and since she is using in lieu of medication, the medication needs to be put into place as well. you could scope out facilities in your area if you are willing and able.

keep doing what you do insofar as talking to her and advising her that this is NOT her fault, and about not sleeping with people for jobs (are you sure that behavior itself isn't impulse/mania driven though? ... that she later regrets and "rationalizes" as something she "has" to do to keep a job?

anyway, offering your own positive influence and supporting her emotionally is a good thing for her.

hope that helps. to recap, the first thing is i'd see if she'll agree to see a psychiatrist... if so, you can help by scouting one out and making an appointment for her with her permission. if she agrees to have you go with her that would be good too as a person in her condition might well forget the appointment. the psychiatrist is the portal to everything else... dx, meds, possibly recommendations for inpatient care, etc.

good luck. you are a kind soul to want to take care of your friend like this. i hope this info has been helpful.

Hi Waves,
I knew I would hear from you as soon as I put the word out. So glad you are sounding so much better. Stable. I was worried about you girl. I pray for you every night as well as for all of us that are on neurotalk. Good job on the improvement!
Well, my friend is in jail so I figure they will transfer her to a rehab program. Probably the salvation army. The problem is that she has been to that program before for six months inpatient and been to many other rehab programs. She just got three DUI's and I know she already had a bunch of them so I fear that she may be looking at serious jail time. In her case this may be her only hope. If they keep her in jail long enough and put her on meds maybe she will have enough time to get some recovery. I feel terrible about her being in jail but she will be homeless if they let her out. Her parents said she could not come back there. As bad as jail is at least she is not being taken advantage of sexually too. I don't know if that is some sort of compulsive thing and she justifies it later or what. I have noticed that I don't think she can read. Or at least she can barely read. I think she is dyslexic and misses much of what is being said when she reads. She understands it wrong. I noticed it when I went to a few AA meetings with her just to give her support. Do you guys have problems with reading? Like you are only getting bits of the information? Maybe that is from her being wasted on drugs and alcohol I don't know. Does anyone know if I could help her start a disability claim while she is in jail? Like I said, I have seen a lot of people granted disability for bi-polar and she is an extreme case. She lies a lot, even to me someone she knows is not judging her and has only ever given support and help. Is that something that is a symptom of bi-polar? If anyone has any ideas let me know as I fear for her life if she is let out of jail and if she is kept she needs a plan to come back to. Like money from disability and a program with a psychiatrist and medications. She has been a battered woman also. Her husband beat her and she has PTSD I think from that trauma. If anyone knows of any programs or advise that would be most appreciated. We live in Salt Lake City, Ut.
Thanks guys. Lots of love to you all. Hope everyone had a good day. Get some good sleep tonight.
Brain

Dear Brainpatch

NP for the thread. glad it was ok i did that.

I'm not exactly stable - but i'm doing better. Thanks for praying for me. That is so kind.

ok, dyslexia / difficulty reading is not a symptom of bipolar, but it is often seen with ADHD. she may also have a learning disability whereby she was never able to learn to read very well. i doubt it's the drugs if it's specifically a reading problem. if it were due to the drugs, it would be due to destruction of brain tissue and you'd see significant cognitive impairment and progressive deterioration.

do you know for a fact she is bipolar? if someone is hyperactive, and also has depression, it doesn't make them bipolar. she may have a different dx, or multiple dxs. only a psychiatrist who sees her personally can make this evaluation. in addition, substance abuse complicates the picture. if some of her sx are caused by the drugs, that will tend to alter the dx. a working dx will have to me made to help her, but a definitive evaluation can only be made once she is clean.

do you know that the mood issues came before the abuse? i don't know how long you've known her. she could also have borderline personality disorder which is psychiatric but usually meds are not the first choice - DBT is (a very specific type of talk therapy). sufferers do self-medicate extensively though.

to get disability, you first need her exact diagnosis/diagnoses. without a diagnosis, she has no basis for a claim. i think there is a way you can apply on her behalf. i don't know the mechanisms but i believe there is a forum here... i will look for it. i don't know what to say about the jail time and i don't know how it would affect her access to disability. depending what her diagnosis, she may be able to avoid jail or do her time in a care facility, if temporary insanity can be claimed. here again we move into legal territory where i am grossly underqualified.

one thing i'd caution against is her being legally declared of unsound mind (as a way to avoid jail)... she would not be held responsible for her actions, but she would also be stripped of ordinary rights, and reversing that once she is being treated could be very very tricky.

Lying is not a part of bipolar. you've said her parents make her feel really bad. she may have developed this as a defense mechanism. Lying is also seen in other pathologies. also when one uses alcohol and drugs generally there are inevitable cover-ups of use. usually it starts with not wanting others to know how much one uses because one realizes one is going overboard. this is in the beginning. once it becomes a habit, i imagine the lying can spread to other things. if i had to venture a guess, it would be that her lying is more due to psychological reasons. her illness and abuse issues will need to be addressed but she will definitely need therapy as well.

step 1. determine diagnosis.
step 2. determine if disability applies when one is in jail
step 3. determine legal situation wrt DUI's, considering dx
step 4. determine what status you must attain (eg medical advocacy) so you can file her disability
step 5. attain that status and file for disability

depending what you discover in step 2, it may be that you can follow up on the legal stuff and disability at the same time.

hope that helps. i might have to bail for the night here. yet anOTHER pesky mig coming on.



~ waves ~

Hi, Brain,

Money solves part of the problem for right now.
If someone hired a lawyer for her, she could get diagnosed for the jail's purposes and get on meds.
She would still be legally able to refuse the medications as that as her right even in jail for DUIs -- unless she is judged incompetent.
But lots of money helps some of the problems you are talking about.

OR -- look at this --- there is a degree of luck (or fate as you have it) in getting better.

Her jail might be relatively free of corruption to the degree that she has no access to alcohol or drugs while she is inside and so gets clean.
Then a profesional (or her by herself) decides she needs medical help.
===
As Waves says, she could have more than one diagnosis and might not be bipolar at all.
===
Getting clean in jail is a first step for good things for her.

M

Hi Guys,
Thanks for the advise. I know she definately has been diagnosed with bi-polar. As I said she has been going around and around in the same circle in the system for years now. I don't have any money to help her with and have my own problems as I am trying to get on disability myself and have traumatic brain injury among other things. I just thought maybe I could mail her an application or something and she could work on it while in jail. I think she will accept the meds and any help offered to her. I just don't think she is mentally fit enough to work and she gets out of jail and rehab cleaned up and feels like she can do it and then it gets too stressful on her and she falls back to the alcohol and drugs. Yeah, her family is bad for her -she told me she was raped when she was young and they made her repent for it. Like it was something she needed to say sorry to god for. That makes a lot of sense about the reading problem being ADHD. As I am going to social security tomorrow to apply for a new claim I will pick up an extra application and get it to her. I hope she can pull it together. Pray for her guys. She is in need. Pray for me too as I am in need also. I also pray for all of you every night. Waves, sorry to hear your still not feeling that good. I get really bad migraines too so I know what your going through with that. Having a problem with your brain sucks in the worst sort of sucking way.
Much love to you all, sorry you are all suffering bi-polar. What a barrel of fun that one must be.
Brain

HI, Brain,

It is not a matter of accepting the meds. It is a matter of embracing the dx and making life changes in order to be well.

She will need to advocate for herself while she is in jail.
She can request that she get an appointment with the psychiatrist. Depending on the jail (and the state gov) she might to have to go through a a hassle. If she goes clean in jail and starts on meds in jail, she has a chance of being successful when she gets out.

She will benefit from
1. starting on the med path now / soon
2. having the transition plan in place when she gets out

Otherwise, the jail lets her go and she is a place much like she was before she went to jail this time.

You can probably post on the disability forum here. People need to have records of diagnoses and such. I am not familiar with the process. Sometimes it is relatively straightforward. For others, it takes years.


M

Brain,

Here is a link about filing for disability online:

http://www.wikihow.com/File-for-Disability-in-Utah

Here is a link for Dual Diagnosis Treatment Centers:
http://treatment.psychologytoday.com...te=UT&spec=263

Here is a definition of Dual Diagnosis from wikipeida:
Mari

Brain,

Has she had her vision checked?
Some people with dyslexia have benefited from medications from a psychiatrist.
Social workers in Salt Lake can get her into programs. She needs to get connected to them.

M.