[bizi]

December 28, 2007 http://trouble.philadelphiaweekly.com/


Just enough suicide


In response to Terry's thought that I perhaps cover suicide too much, Wendi writes:

Like most depressives, I face suicide everyday. I stare it down daily, and so far, everyday, I've won the battle. It's very real to me, just as much a part of my life as deciding what to wear everyday. When I read about other people's suicides, it's a chance for me to not only mourn that person's death with true compassion, but also to celebrate my own decision to live that day. I value compassionate observance, what I find here. I shrink from the sensationalism of the media coverage, which only serves to hold the person up as an aberration. It makes me feel like a freak, too. So, I value your reports of suicides, Liz. It's not too much. It's just enough of what I don't find elsewhere - understanding and real feeling. Sorry, Terry. I disagree with you completely.

The emphasis is mine because that's exactly what I feel, though before Wendi said it, I never realized that's how I felt.
Posted by liz at 11:57 AM | Permalink | Comments (3)
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Too much suicide?


Terry Boal, who wrote the below, is right -- "suicide" is one of my key words. Is he also right that I over-report it? I'd be curious to hear some thoughts on this.

One of your key words must be suicide. Tragic though they may be and close to home as who amongst us grappling with depression hasn't considered it, I think you are over reporting them. We have all lost friends and are aware when a public figure does themselves in, but the suicide rate even for those depressed is very small. So I think you should reconsider the gratuitous over reporting. There are other issues to deal with such as very often suicide is selfish and cowardly. You are gone but those who loved or cared about you are still around and wonder what there role they played or you may leave children and a partner behind. Liz I know it is an issue close to your heart as you have been on the verge. Most of us have been but most of us, like you don't do it.

Posted by liz at 08:23 AM | Permalink | Comments (0)
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December 27, 2007

[waves]

too often i have heard people speak about suicides in the news with gross insensitivity. too often i have had to avoid the subject, or spoken and been scoffed at, "shut up" in various ways, or alienated ppl.

i FIRMLY believe talk of suicide and other strong subjects inherent to our illness should not be taboo in places like liz's blog, or here. Also that such talk be free such that the poster not "feel it is taboo" - but maybe that is my problem.

i need a place free of taboo where we can talk openly about these things, because yes they are daily, minute-ly issues even, for many of us, and i daresay all of us have had the thoughts.

Bizi, what you posted captures some of my problem with all the trigger stuff and hedging around the strong issues we face daily... it felt to me like a taboo here too, and at BT when the trigger stuff came about. i understood painfully well that i could still "talk about anything," but the action of flagging things like suicide was a deterrant for me from posting about it, no more no less than the overall social taboo is a deterrant. posting about it then felt like taboo just as much as face to face. And so...

too often i would choose not to post, just as i would choose not to talk.

A scary silence.

i have noticed here in this forum that gradually the "trigger trend" has lessened ... and i am soooooooo grateful for that. And also that things have relaxed and talk is more open and frank about these things. i hope my pointing this out does not result in a sudden reversal to the treading on eggs as it was before, lol.

indeed, it is one of the reasons i felt ok to come and post more regularly... even if currently i am not face to face with suicide.

Bizi, i didn't really respond to your emphasis

but i guess i wanted to express my own emphasis.

~ waves ~ will update on my own status today - in my thread tho

[Alffe]

I am a huge advocate of talking about our feelings. Talking about how we feel is a huge step in healing. The "problem" arises when we feel someone threatening to suicide...when we feel we are being held hostage by the threat. I have always said that if someone is hell bent on killing themselves, there is nothing we can do to stop them.

These forums are about support..about holding each other up..about giving, or trying to give someone a reason to live..just by letting them know that we care..by offering a hug...whatever will help get them past that moment.

We all know how it feels to have lost the will to live...to feel hopeless.
It's ok to talk about how you feel...it isn't ok to threaten us with suicide.

If that makes anysense at all. *grin Thanks waves! Bizi is still asleep.

[Curious]

Originally Posted by Alffe

I am a huge advocate of talking about our feelings. Talking about how we feel is a huge step in healing. The "problem" arises when we feel someone threatening to suicide...when we feel we are being held hostage by the threat. I have always said that if someone is hell bent on killing themselves, there is nothing we can do to stop them.

These forums are about support..about holding each other up..about giving, or trying to give someone a reason to live..just by letting them know that we care..by offering a hug...whatever will help get them past that moment.

We all know how it feels to have lost the will to live...to feel hopeless.
It's ok to talk about how you feel...it isn't ok to threaten us with suicide.

If that makes anysense at all. *grin Thanks waves! Bizi is still asleep.

i quoted alffe to stress the point that it is ok and welcome here to talk about your feelings. even dark scary ones. but not ok to threaten us or make us feel guilty. we are just everyday caring people. we are not dr's.

but i do believe that by posting it is a reach out for help. it's the ones we never see that first post i pray for.

waves i am so happy that you are back and feel comfortable posting your feeling here. now tell alffe to go nudge bizi and wake her up before a monkey jumps on the bed!

[waves]

Alffe i'm not sure if you took what i said in my post as saying that it was ok to "threaten" ppl with suicide.

overall, i hope that my post did not come across as saying that threatening suicide on a forum is acceptable. i did not mean that. i meant only that i feel it needs to be ok to talk about it, past present thoughts, and ideation... to whatever extent.

i believe one should be able to say if they feel suicidal, and that this communication of one's state/feelings, per se is not a threat.

i see a "threat" as an ultimatum, an "or else" ... etc, as being a manipulation and even a power play, in whichever context, forum, email, live, whatever. and that this is not acceptable, in any context.

i just don't know how to delineate well the difference, just trying to say that i see a big difference between expressing being suicidal, and threatening it.

~ waves ~

[waves]

Dear Curious,

i missed your post... i was writing mine in the meantime.

thank you and re-thank you for the welcome.

i hope what i just posted makes sense and is reasonable, and for some feedback to the distinction i tried to delineate.

about "trying to make others feel guilty" - that is what i meant by manipulation.

~ waves ~

[Curious]

i think you made great sense. i didn't take it at all that you meant it was ok to threaten. it's ok to say you are suicidal. it's not ok to say goodbye i'm going to off myself.

i think we are all trying to drive that point across strongly. in a good and caring way.

we do get those kind of posts. i don't know if all meannt to come acrosss that way. some for sure didn't and were just reaching out. maybe us talking about this will help those who are needing help, be able to word it so we can support them. make any sense?

[waves]

Originally Posted by Curious

i think you made great sense. i didn't take it at all that you meant it was ok to threaten. it's ok to say you are suicidal. it's not ok to say goodbye i'm going to off myself.

ok. thanks. yes that is what i was trying to say.

we do get those kind of posts. i don't know if all meannt to come acrosss that way. some for sure didn't and were just reaching out. maybe us talking about this will help those who are needing help, be able to word it so we can support them. make any sense?

ABSOLUTELY!

~ waves ~

[Alffe]

well alright then! *grin. Bizi finally got up and Mr.Alffe took us to breakfast at the Pancake house...there goes my diet.

Waves I didn't take it at all as a threat and I welcomed the opportunity to talk about IT....I always want to do that..maybe bring some good from our sons' suicide.

Now Curious...you know that I love you dearly...however...grimacing here at "off myself". That's another one of those painful sayings...like the suicide cake. Our son was a juvenile probabtion officer and his young clients said that he..."offed himself". Hate it...will always hate it!

And Bizi just got on the road to Indy...she and her twin sister always celebrate their birthdays together. What a night that was those many years ago......

[Curious]

i hate it too alffe. all of those type of connotations. what ever the wording. it's not ok to post that you are going to kill yourself.

i'm sorry if i offended you or brought up bad memories.