http://www.furiousseasons.com/archiv...onal.html#more



sorry for posting this....

I don't agree with Steven Morgan. There are, including myself many people that DO NEED TO TAKE THEIR MEDS. I have even gone off some of mine, just to see, and it wasn't pretty.

Since I have been on my BP II meds, I have not attempted suicide, I don't even think about it. I don't stay in bed all day. I don't cry at the drop of a hat. etc etc etc

So, I agree to disagree with him.

This could be a frightening article for many, and it can make people think that they can just be fine, just like that. Scares me.

Nikko

I am not saying to get off your meds!
that said...
The entire article is very long....
I think the arguement is simply about assumptions.
NAMI is funded by pharmacetical companies.
I think it is a valid point to take a look at ourselves.
I have for far too long accepted bipoolar as a label...an excuse for bad behavior....and not take accountability.
I have a brain and have to use it.
Yes I take meds but I also have therapy which has helped me more than the meds....learning how to cope and deal with the past etc.
Now I take much fewer meds than my pdoc wanted half I would say...I was over medicated.
I had to learn to recognise and police myself when I am starting to obcess too much....to do something different to stop the cycle.
It is normal for us to get upset and angry or even sad about things that happen...that is called a normal response....grief is not something that we need to medicate to make it go away.
WE have to work thru it...which is hard and takes a long time.
My best friend here is a great example of being over medicated.
10 years ago she was seperating from her abusive husband and overdosed, unsuccessfully thankfully and was diagnosed bipolar and put on meds.
since that time she was put on a variety of meds...having a multitude of side effects then adding on something else to counter balance that side effect.
at one point she was on 8 meds at once.
She has since remarried and went off all of her meds to get pregnant.
Since having the child she went back on an anti depressant alone and is doing well.
I think it is safe to say that keeping our bodies in balance is something that we strive to do.
That includes exercise, nutrition, emotional support, and medications as needed....wholistic approach.

I agree that not everyone Has to take meds to make it work.
IMO Every single person on the face of the earth can fit into the DSM4 category as it is all subjective....the drug companies would want everyone to have a mental illness....$$$$$
I will get off my little rant.
bizi

deleted:
not helpful
sorry

Everyone needs to decide for themselves whether, when, what, and how many meds to take. No-one can decide for anyone else.

Information, and perspectives, regarding any of these issues (why what where when how how much etc), however, need not be taken personally... why not let it be food for thought?

I am sorry i missed your original post Bizi.
I personally hope you might decide to put it back, if you are comfortable doing so.

Everyone ... no worries, information, perspectives, are just that, to take or leave.

(end part 1)

~ waves ~

Dear Bizi, i tried to quote parts of your post to make my post shorter but you are very concise in what you say, and say many important things in here, so i think between piece here and piece there, i might have quoted the whole thing!!! Thank you for sharing your valuable testimonials and perspectives.

Absolutely! It is just too easy to think, oh, i must be feeling this way, or done this thing "because of my bipolar" and dismiss it. Yet, that happens often i believe; it has certainly happened to me.

I *know* that i have deeeeeeep psychological issues from my personal history. Anyone with these issues would have emotional problems, and they need not be bipolar. Many times i have wondered if, at least in part, my "bipolar sx" were, again "coherent - considering my psychological issues - with an event, or whether they were CHEMICAL. Could be some of both! But I have also wondered whether, if i could grow out of my psychological pain to a sufficient degree, i might actually not need meds... might not even be bipolar. (i'm talking ME now, k?)

Yes. when i was first medicated/diagnosed, i grew to be hypervigilant of "symptoms." if i was just a little bit "too happy" geeez, it might be hypomania. If i had some down days, oh no, i might be headed for depression, doc, should we up the Zoloft? Gradually i learned (i kept a log for several years, to note important events in my log and consider whether my feelings and behaviour were coherent and proportional to these events, OR if indeed "out of sync" with my life and therefore pathological and warranting medical intervention.

so was i and it sickened me having to take a fistful of pills. Mine came to include thyroid supplements which, while they helped my mood a great deal, my being given them made my GP (an internist) balk, since my thyroid values had been (albeit marginally) normal. I had no clinical sx of hypothyroidism either. Medicating "subclinical hypothyroidism" was a trend in psychiatry at the time but she was concerned that doing so could ultimately cause my thyroid to shut down. indeed, as time and tests revealed, the supplements only had a temporary effect before we had to increase them and finally the labs showed a dangerously low level of thyroid stimulating hormone (TSH) (the pituitary decided, well, we have enough t4 in the system, so we only need to give the thyroid a tiny nudge, not the normal push and shove). (this story has no real ending because around then i moved cross-atlantic and tapered myself (yes, unsupervised, off my meds.)

Pregnancy and even planning for it is one example where getting off meds is almost a must... a difficult decision at best, choosing to:
-- stay on meds because you know you will flip out if you don't - despite the strong teratogenic effects of most of our meds
-- stop meds, risking flipping out and ending up putting the pregnancy and yourself at risk
-- decide not to reproduce (seems harsh, but some do make this choice)

YES. like i know i should be taking magnesium with a B complex ... but i'm not... magnesium is extremely important to the nervous system - too little makes you - nervous! I have had tics on occasion in the past, and found that just drinking lots of milk (i used to drink hardly nil, and barely any cheese or greens at that time either) it resolved in just a few days. (i drank some normal milk... but that gallon of chocomilk i had ... oh yummmm what a treat, lol! )

OH YEAAHHHHH. That is a big time problem especially in psychiatry where there are precious little empirical evaluation tools, but only the supposedly "objective" evaluation of a professional... this "objectiveness" is a bit of a stretch and hardly scientific, being in fact a "subjective" evaluation by another human. the extent of the objectivity is having a perspective that is outside that of the patient's own, which, when we are messed up, is in fact useful. But it does not hurt to be mindful of the professional's own subjectivity, and this lack of empirical evaluation tools.

rant? what rant?! you shared your thoughts and learning experience, is all. that's how i see it.

And I want to thank you for bringing up all of these issues, Bizi. There is a lot of controversy and thus emotional "heat" over these things, but they are important, and sharing our views can only be helpful to all of us.

I mean, ultimately, we are each our own boss, and can take what is useful and leave the rest. Let us all remember this.

((( bizi )))

~ waves ~
~
~

oh no!!! not another deletion! i do understand deleting posts, because i do that myself, usually most often due to feeling awkward.

Mari, that goes for you too! i only got a chance to scan... not really absorb.

~~~~~~~~~~~~

I wish we could ALLLLL (and yes that includes yours truly ) be ok with this ... to post, talk, share.... even with controversial info - and perhaps especially with that.

I repeat from my earlier post: information, perspectives, are just that, to take or leave. Each of us has this irrevocable prerogative. (we do also have the prerogative of deleting, yes, we do. ) But i believe it to be more valuable in posting, whether in agreement or otherwise, to be respectful rather than silent.

Silence is less useful than respectful disagreement.

there you have my third postal perspectives, for better or for worse.

~ waves ~ sadly as i think perhaps my first post contributed to the second deletion

heck darn i fixed formatting so much i got the "last edited comment. darn. hate that. lol!)
~

I guess I should not of posted to this original thread. I don't think I got the entire story.

I wish I knew how to just delete it.

Sorry....Nikko

Dear Nikko,
I am sorry if I offended you...I did not mean to.
I tried to PM you but you are not accepting any....
I hope you are not mad at me....
bizi

I'm okay, I will turn on my PM - didn't even know it was off.

You can email me too.

Nikko