[tritone]

I was thinking of everyone here very fondly and realized it had been too long since I dropped in.

I'm doing well. We have been going through some really difficult stuff - not stuff I did, stuff someone else did, and it just blew me out of the water and I didn't know how to handle it. I told the people I trust and expected them to help me and they essentially failed me - I was bringing all of it into my group meeting and it was really beyond the group's scope. So I asked the psychologist/leader to help me. He told me it would be $400 an hour!!! So I suffered mostly in silence, took my anger out on a few people verbally and went down that slippery slope into very deep depression. Wound up in the hospital which was another great experience (not) - but the shittiness of the hospital, and the staff's ignorance only motivated me to search deeply like I have never searched before - beyond the self-centered wallowing - and as I woke up from the benzo induced dullness it all hit me like a ton of bricks. I feel like I woke up and man I'm glad to be alive.

I actually feel great. I feel very optimistic. Obviously I fell flat on my face pretty recently - but it was a wake-up. I've only experienced this kind of epiphany one other time in my life and it was a major, major turning point. I've got a lot of faults and I have a lot to learn! I simply feel like I woke up, and I guess quite literally I did.

There isn't really anything new in terms of ideas. I've always liked the sound of things like 'living in the moment' and not dwelling in the past. I don't have any divine revelations. I won't be writing the next self-help book for Oprah's club. But something is really different. I'm not so afraid.

I was going down to meet my new PO today. This is usually an event frought with anxiety. I found myself standing outside the building looking up at a flock of birds that were going round and round above the artificial canyon created by a bunch of skyscapers. I realized that I was REALLY watching them - like I had never quite looked at birds before. And, most amazingly, I wasn't THINKING about anything else! This is my biggest challenge right now - this thinking, thinking, what if, dwelling in the past... just thinking too damn much... about nothing!

I promise I'm not manic even though that might sound a little bit like it.

I just wanted to share that moment and say hi!

[bizi]

HI tritone!
thanks for stopping by.
nice to hear from you.
I have had a couple of very clear times in my life after a mania though like I was really seeing things, everything seemed so new and interesting.
I am glad that you are feeling better.
that is what is important!!!!
$400 an hour is crazy.
look for another therapist,an MSW, mine charges $90 an hour.
good luck with eveything...we miss you here.
bizi

[tritone]

Hi Bizi!

Thanks - I am seeing my PDoc, who is pretty reasonable, much more frequently. He sees both my wife and me. Its kind of helpful that he knows both of us so well since we are really each other's primary support. I spoke to him about therapy. I think seeing him more frequently and for slightly longer sessions might be enough.

I also just joined a new group and met the leader yesterday. He seemed like a really special guy and I didn't have to explain anything to him. He just GOT it... that is so rare.

I'm being careful. A lot of this 'energy' is probably related to the fact that the doc at the hospital took me off all the benzos and the Seroquel. Its just Lithium/Lamictal and Wellbutrin. I'm having to learn to cope without popping an Ativan or a Klonopin and it ain't that easy! I think I'm a lot more sensitive to everything because I'm not in that fog... I am taking a much higher dose of lithium. I had to cut it back and then work up to where they wanted it because the side effects were bad. But, I'm doing ok on it now.

I don't usually read 'self help' books; but I'm reading Power of Now by Eckhart Tolle. It isn't anything new really, but he makes it so plain. I find it really difficult to let go of things, so I guess what I was so excited about - the birds and all - was the fact that I DID let go for the better part of a minute. I think its a great start. Mania was never my primary issue until I hit my mid to late thirties - and a combination of substance abuse, wrong medication and stress brought it out in the worst way. It is hard to be objective when it comes to one's self; but I'm pretty sure it isn't a manic reaction. Definitely keeping an eye out for that though... I guess maybe a little manicy - but it is different. I'm not sure I can explain it.

My biggest weakness is getting into these cycles of compulsive thinking. Thinking in circles, non stop, worrying about the future and dwelling on the past. Inevitably this leads me into very, very dark places and it just has to stop. I owe it not only to myself but the people who care about me - my wife, my kids, my co-workers, etc...

[bizi]

how quickly did you taper off of the benzos?
bizi

[Mari]

Hi, Tritone,

'Great to see you.

You have lots of changes with new med regime, new group, . . .


I'm happy to hear that you are doing well.
You will be able to retrain yourself to change the habits of cycles of compulsive thinking.


M.

[tritone]

Originally Posted by bizi

how quickly did you taper off of the benzos?
bizi

Hi Bizi,

Well I was taking 4-5mg of Ativan every night, not a small dose... This was in addition to a very small dose of Seroquel. Then my PDoc started me on a half mg of the dissolving Klonopin wafers. I blame the addition of the Klonopin for making a moderate depression into a very serious one.

To answer your question, very quickly. I went into the hospital on a Friday and they DC'd the Ativan immediately and left a .5 mg Klonopin as a PRN. I think I took the Klonopin two or three nights out of the 10 nights I spent there. I also stopped the Seroquel cold.

I asked the PDoc at the hospital about withdrawl and his only answer was that he wasn't concerned about it.

I did go through a tremendous emotional upheaval and many sleepless nights while I was in there. Up all night in a locked ward where your only choice is to pace the hall way or lie in the dark with two snoring room mates. Fun stuff.

I think by the time I got home I was over the worst of it. The hardest thing is that I have ALWAYS relied on something to quiet myself down at night - at least since the time I was 14 or 15 years old.

I think the fact that my wife is so supportive and my job is so supportive have helped me to pull through.

Hi Mari,

Yes - I'm working on it. My PDoc has some new technique that involves meditation and breathing techniques that he wants to show me... That sounded pretty good to me.

I feel a lot more clear and my memory certainly seems better. I'm still having nights where I can't sleep but it isn't so bad. If it is really bad I just read and know that maybe I'll have an easier time sleeping the next night and I usually do.

[bizi]

Hi tritone,
jsut a qick note to you before I hit the hay.
I am very very upset that your doctor was not concerned about jsut stopping the benzo ccold turkey.
I am sure that your sleep has been all over the place.
Many people have withdrawl symptoms, increased anxiety and physical symptoms that go on for a long tim after....
I am very hopeful that you will not experience any of these things.
When I came off ambien my sleep was terrible.
Like you I knew that one of these days I am going to have to sleep...and it would come, days later...I still don't sleep great but it is getting better.
I know that laying still is restful so even if I just lay in bed and be calm that I am getting some "rest"...knowing that I will eventually sleep. I try not to panic about it....I also don't get up either.
I wish you wellness....and here is to blissful sleep...some day.
bizi

[Mari]

Hi, Tritone,

Drs who do not taper really stink.
My pdoc went into a little rant one time complaining about how other drs (surgeons, .. . . ) take his patients off benzos and then call him when the patient starts with seizures. Duh.

10 nights in-patient? Wow. I guess you really needed to be there. Did the place have good group sessions or were you left on your own to struggle through the time?

Chanting, mediation, and breathing techniques can help in marvelous ways. My tdoc wants me to do a mini-meditation /hypnosis for 5 minutes a day. I'm not doing it yet, even though I see the value. I used to be very good in yoga and breathing but got a way from it for about 2-3 years (I got married and the life plan I had went to pieces). I'm working on getting back into the mind-body thing that yoga can do.

Tritone, I hope you don't mind my pointing this out. I was struck by the use of the word "protective" when you were speaking about your son and your wife. Don't forget to be "protective" of your spouse. Sorry. I don't want to feel like I am butting in and I know that blended-type families are hard.

Also, I know that you are super sensitive to every body else's needs.

Still, I thought maybe if you think of yourself as protecting her too, it might help. If not, forget I said it.

A few years ago, a friend of mine who was going through a hard time, bought a copy of The Power of Now for himself and a copy for me. I remember his explaining to me his new way of dealing with traffic and sitting at a red light. I can't remember what he said. (And you can tell, that I did not finish the book. )
My mother was talking about the book the other day on the phone, so maybe I will look for it. It might be among my boxes somewhere.

Oprah is powerful. She talks about a book/author and then the rest of the work is talking about the book.


About living in the moment: I remember reading/hearing a teacher explain that when we wash dishes we can focus all of our attention on the dishes. We don't have to think about it as a chore or what we need to do next, or whatever. We can fullly BE with the dishes. Or something like that.

Thích Nhất Hạnh (buddhist monk living in Paris) has some good books too about everyday mindfulness. I find him easier to read than Eckhart Tolle. And of course this stuff is not new -- but I like being reminded!

Have you seen the youtube clips of Tolle?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPg9DnMP2D4

One more thing, I have been able to use various breathing techniques to help me get to sleep or help calm myself down when I am at work or in public. It is cool because you can do it without anyone know what you are up to.


Mari

[tritone]

Hi Bizi and Mari,

No need to worry. I think everything you are saying is very supportive and I really appreciate it.

The last time I had to go in patient was over two years ago - and they tapered the Ativan down and removed the Seroquel. About a day or two after I got home I went through the most awful and horrible anxiety you can imagine. The reason I mentioned my wife and my job is because back then I was working in a job that I didn't like very much. They were very good to me but I just didn't feel like it was me. That alone made the anxiety very hard to deal with and I quit the job. I still feel bad about just quitting with no notice, but I just had to do it.

I really love the job I have now and I've been there over two years now. So instead of actually fretting over going back to work, I actually really missed the people I work with. So the experience was very, very different.

I was supposed to make a 10 day trip to Africa to attend a conference, but they gave me a very graceful option to back out of it which I took. I think they understand - if only at the most basic level. This is the most I can ask from anyone and it is very helpful.

One of those 'soul searching' areas for me when I was away was my marriage. There have been no major conflicts for the two of us together - but the external stuff is difficult. I've understood these things before - so it isn't somthing completely new - but what IS new, I think, is the resolve to realize that my 'loyalties' are to my marriage - that as guilty as I can feel for being a neglectful son, or a less than sterling father - my wife came to visit me every night while I was in there and we talked, and talked, and talked about all of this. So I realized some things. Other things went from being good ideas to actions with a plan. When I say I'm being protective of my son I mean that I'm aware of it - it is a reflex - but it is also something my wife and I were able to talk about without me getting defensive... So when I say reasonable people I mean that nobody is perfect; but we are willing to listen to each other and work on changing our ways. My marriage is of paramount importance to me. Not only because I love my wife but also because it may be the ONLY example my children have of a healthy relationship between two adults, or even a healthy relationship between an adult and a child.

The pdoc in the hospital... hmm... well that's a whole other story and I'm not sure how important it is. I have my doubts about him in retrospect - in regard to a number of things - especially some of the assumptions and conclusions he made about me - in all of about the 60 minutes total he spent with me while I was there. I discussed those things with my long time PDoc when I got home and he said those things were not true and gave me alternate explanation that made a lot more sense.

The hospital itself was too cold, very noisy, and there was very little in the way of activites. I'm used to the better hospitals here in the City. You know, performers from Julliard on the weekend, and dance therapy, and stuff to do -and mental health people who aren't completely full of themselves and don't make rash judgements. It basically sucked. But, whether I 'came to' as a result of the spartan conditions, and judgements made against me - or that I was just ready to do the work, I DID go through an intense process there. I have to give myself the credit for that.

I have heard of Thích Nhất Hạnh. His story is pretty inspiring. There are a lot of things in Buddhism that make a great deal of sense - and I think it offers a wonderful practice to maintain those values and stay on the right path. I personally like the idea of a religion that doesn't have any blood shed/subjugation/conguest/slavery/nationalism/militarism in it's history - but I'm not trashing anyone's beliefs if that gives them peace. I just know too much history to be able to reconcile that with certain aspects of modern religion. To me, it is just dangerous. But I certainly know lots of wonderful people who's religion is an inseperable part of their lives.

Bizi - I agree about the simply lying still part. I've been doing better and it has been getting easier to sleep. I constantly worry about my situation. I don't want to go into all those details.

I guess the biggest thing that I 'got' or that really hit me was how selfish it can be to get obsessed with the negative stuff. So even if I can't let go of it for myself, I can let go of it because I want to be present for everyone else. I guess that is the biggest thing - that I didn't realize how much damage it could do to other people.

I don't want to sound like I think I have it all figured out because I don't. Maybe I'm just paying more attention...

[Mari]

Dear Tritone,

You sound so good in your posts.

When I read about the potential trip to Africa I went "EEK!"
I'm so happy that I have not flown in a couple of years. The trips to Africa are many hours long. 'Glad that they worked it out so you didn't not have to do that.

Your wife going to the hospital to talk with you every night is so heart thumping. She is sweet.

Your son and your relationship will be ok because you are concerned about him.


Mari