Wanted to let Waves now that we are here for you
when you need us.

Also to say you are always so thoughtful and its so
nice to know that we can come in here and find support.

So please remember to let us recipricate.

Donna

Hugs

This is very sweet of you and serves as a reminder
that we are here for folks during ups and downs.
WE understand the full range of emotions that
one can experience.
thinking of you too.
beth

Donna now you are a real sweetheart to start this thread for me. someone oughtta take you to your son's dance too... well, at least in spirit since dancing is probably not a good idea for you just yet.

well, second day off Zoloft totally for me. talked to pdoc and he agreed, since what was on the rise were agitated sx not depressive sx (which one would have expected during PMS. The latter is also over thank goodness.

My sleep is still disturbed, however. last night i still had persecutional dreams to a degree, which is unusual. i don't know how much of it is the Zoloft. but i think some of it was, at least stepping from 50mg to 25mg. i was at 50mg for about 3 weeks, and 25mg for about 3 weeks, though, so one would not expect tapering side-effects. and vivid dreams usually come with dosage INCREASE, NOT DECREASE for me. steep decrease or abrupt suspension is more associated with lightheadedness, dizziness/vertigo, sometimes difficulty concentrating. i have not had that.

take it back, i had difficulty concentrating when my agitation ramped up enough that my thoughts started racing, but again that is different. and the first intervention is usually we decrease my AD. so BEATS ME what the deal is... perhaps it is just an upswing in mood set off by situations around me... which have certainly been trying to say the least. the racing thoughts night i took zyprexa and slept 2 days straight except for dinner ... FOOD ALARM!!!

so........ after all this i called pdoc and he agreed with me that we should try dropping the zoloft altogether.

YAY no more morning pills.

now if only my sleep would get more RESTFUL.

Commercial break is over... back to Poirot!!!

thanks again Donna
and
thanks Beth for your ongoing support and understanding.

~ waves ~

Hi, Waves,

My sleep is disturbed. I slept off and on and now am going back. I'm not really in sense making mode right now (reading or writing).

I do want to join in and let you know that I am happy to hear from you. It sounds like you have a big day planned.

Am I right that going off Zoloft completely is a big change for you? I thought that you went up and down on it. The cut seems new. I hope that this change will help you.


M.

Waves, I hope your sleep gets straight. I have not been sleeping well at all for awhile now. I hope the change helps you also.

((( Mari & Barbara )))

I hope y'all's (don' mind my grammar now ) sleep gets sorted out too. Boy does it ever SUCK doesn't it??? Thanks for the wishes Barbara, i do hope things settle for me too.

I mean this time the drop from 25 to 0 did not seem to affect me like going 50 to 25. At that time, i was waking up every single freaking sleep cycle. and having horrible dreams. which of course, i would recall, every freaking time, given that i would wake up after the cycle.

Well, now i am waking up not as often maybe 2ce a night. but the dreams... ughhhh. characterized by repetition, anxiety, persecution and threats. i don't even want to post dream content because it could be upsetting to someone and i don't really have a need to post it, so i won't. just figure, nasty, icky, yucko, you-can-run-butcha-can't-hide dreams. last night less repetition in the dreams, but still baaaaad ones. blechhh. who wants to sleep when that's what you get?

Mari I actually started the Zoloft taper as part of my up and down based on my moods thing. See, when i run a temperature, i often have racing thoughts. and when i had that first bad bout of bronchitis with high fever right after Christmas, that happened. so i lowered my Zoloft just a notch to balance that out. when i ran a low temp with the second bout, that happened again, and i went down another notch. I also usually raise it before my menses just by 25 mg, to offset PMS depressive sx. I did that but i had to come back down because of the racing thoughts. so between this and that, i ended up, starting in late December,

tapering down from 100/125mg which was then my stable dose, down to 100, 75, 50, 25, and now ZERO. that is ample time for tapering... it takes a week for Zoloft to reach steady state, tapering every week is reasonable. i did so "prn" but with inferior frequency, especially the last two drops... i was at 50 for at least 2 weeks, and at 25 for i think 3 or 4 come to think of it, because if i recall i dropped to 25 with my last menses, which would be one month ago.... very slow taper.

At 50, we made a decision for me to come off Zoloft and the rest was tapering. The reason was doing consistently well and figured if i could do fine without the AD, so much the better. In general if there is no good reason to give a bipolar an AD, they should not be given it. Some docs draw a hard line and will not rx an AD for a bipolar person, even when depressed. My doc is not a hardliner, but the need for it has certainly become questionable.

I have been on it 5 years... that is a long time, and neurological changes occur... the brain adapts in function of the presence of the AD. That is one good reason to suspend it (slowly). Because it gradually loses effectiveness. If i get depressed again, i am more likely to respond after a period of not taking any AD.

i think the sleep interruption going from 50 to 25mg might have been related to the taper. The repetitious dreams are consistent with the removal of a drug which tends to quell repetitious thought processes (Zoloft is scripted for OCD), so that could be related to the Zoloft decrease. However, i still haven't looked into those links DiMarie gave in her thread wrt the limbic system, the definition and function of which have evolved since i was last given any "real" information on it... by my former pdoc.

As for my current upswing, that makes no sense in function of the Zoloft suspension. I suspect it is unrelated to the med change. Rather, i think i will need to be vigilant for breakthrough hypomania at this point.

I do see my pdoc weekly for therapy, so he will catch it too, even if i don't.

I think it is also a tough call at first to gauge when we are getting well - emerging from persistent bouts of depression and/or anxiety, and when we cross over into the "getting too well" - i.e. hypomanic territory.

i think as long as i am sleeping enough and i am, despite the awful dreams, i am probably ok. there are other "pilot" signs i can be mindful of too, but enough sleep will keep me more or less grounded.



~ waves ~

Wow, I did not realize that you had been tapering off of zoloft for some time now.
Yes alot of your symptoms could be from withdrawl, someone can have a variety of symptoms special to them from withdrawl from any med really.
And you could even have rebound anxiety or depression just from the withdrawl from the med and not really having a "relapse" if that makes sense...it could be a side effect of getting off the drug.

anyway. yeah no more morning meds!!!!
hang in there, you are a strong woman so I know that you will make it thru this difficult time. I really wish you did not have to deal with these dreams...they sound awful and exhausting.
I can't take antidepressants either.
My pdoc increased my lamictal due the mixed episode that I was having.
I forget what mood stabilizer are you on?
((((HUGS))))
beth

Dear Waves,

You sound like you are ok about the changes going on giving up a med.
Sorry about the dreams. That can wreck havoc on wanting to sleep. Can you forget about them? I taught myself to forget about the dream by the time I get out of bed -- this is fine if you don't think that the dreams hold any weight or need to be examined.


M.

[It was nothing. I just thought you needed a pick me up.

But its kind of funny, my son requires a adult escort at all dances.
His dates mother and sometimes father is always there escort.

She always ask me if I would like to do it. But the lights and sometimes
the noise bothers me. So its much better that she do it. And its really
neat because she usually tries to make sure I get to take pictures just
like a regular date would.

Donna

yesssirreeebobb!!! more than ok!!! i'd like to get off all of them but that's not gonna be real soon. Zoloft happened somewhat as a consequence to having racing thoughts due to illness. Then my dose was so low, yet i was still fine moodwise, that we decided to yank it... let's say yanking it had been on a back burner for some time, had not become frankly doable until now. i already said about why that is good, neurologically, and symptomatically, there seems to be no reason to keep it at this point. so, it is DUE, if you know what i mean.

oh yeah. i forget them soon enough as there are waaaaaaaaay too many to remember. i have to "rehearse" any that i think are meaningful (had one of those and was very upsetting one also, not persecutional like the rest, just re-evoked an old memory and i got upset during daytime also. i then proceeded to obsess over it and that's how i ended up remembering it. my pdoc told me to write it down because we need to discuss it. i am afraid of that - discussing it. i didn't write it down. but i remember it sure enough after all that replaying it in my mind.)

last night i started having nasty frantic dreams again. waking up with pressure on my chest and choking sensation (not apneic - anxious) sometimes close to tears.

i have to go now or my mom will take over the bathroom with laundry and i need it to take that shower and do my hair which i didn't yesterday.

I'll be Bach!

~ waves ~