I did the same Dr. Smith; through PT and my Neurosurgeon at the time. It felt great hanging off the door and while in it. But the minute I came out of it, it just seemed like my facet joints just slammed back down for lack of a better description. And I did this for 3 years!! It wasn't until I found a great SPINAL PM doc, that found that true problem(s). Facet joint injections were the ticket for pain relief at that point. It was wonderful to be completely pain free for a few weeks. But my C3/C4 was so far gone, I had to have a fusion. C5/C6 two years later. My point being, it is always best to have conservative therapy first but if too far gone, more has to be done. As for as Chiro goes, I will only relay what my PM had to say. He said, "Some people swear by it. But as for you and as bad as your cervical spine is, STAY AWAY from them UNLESS they are just going to work on the muscles and relieve spasms!" Just remember, the cervical spine is a far cry from the lumbar and far, far more serious.

Hi Kathi,
It sounds like you did the conservative route as long as you could, which is the smart thing to do and then had the surgery. Did the surgery help you? Are you glad you did it?

I did have the Facet injections yesterday. The doc gave me 15 mg of Valium to take 30 min before and I was pretty loopy before I got on the table....after so much pain it felt good to be that relaxed. I do think the shots helped...He injected into 3 sets of facets joints and said I may be sore for a couple days.

In two weeks I have the ablation. Since you have had the ablation, even though it was lumbar, Could you explain your experience in a bit more detail if you recall it. The lit the doc gave me says:

"Since nerves cannot be seen on x-ray,the needles are positioned using bony landmarks that indicate where the nerves usually are. fluoroscopy x-ray is used to identify those bony landmarks. a local anesthetic like a lidocaine is injected to minimize the discomfort after confirmation of the needle tip position, a special needle tip is inserted. when the needle is in good position, as confirmed by x-ray electrical stimulation is done before any ablation. this stimulation may produce a tingling or pressure sensation Or may be like hitting your funny bone. you may also feel your muscles jump. you need to be awake during this procedure so you can report what you're feeling. the tissue surrounding the needle tip Are then heated when electric current is passed using the radiofrequency machine for, a few seconds this numbs the nerves semi-permanently."

The facet joint injections, were not painful, not much more than a flu shot. However this sounds much more painful if they are running electrical stimulation into a nerve to test for correct position and then a heated electric current zaps the nerve. Did you experience much pain?

Would love to hear your thoughts or anyone who has had the ablation. Thanks, Diandra

p.s. wanted to recommend the "Dragon" dictation app. I use it on my Ipad. I talk my "post" into the app and then copy and paste into this thread....it saves me SO much typing.

Hi Diandra, yes, I went the conservative route for 3 years; everything and anything, you name it. Plus handfuls of meds (non-narcotic) which I NEVER want to go through again. I was so sick to stomach all of the time, dizzy, in a fog and on and on. I forgot to say that this all began in 2000 so it has been several years and I haven't had any injections for cervical spine for awhile. At least two years now. But I have for the lumbar.

Anyway, I am giggling at you. I shouldn't say that. What I mean is I am understanding of your fear of the RF. I could NOT wrap my brain around it! I thought just as you did. If they are going to destroy the medial branch nerves, I WILL feel it!! WRONG! I didn't feel a thing! What your doctor told you is correct. So, I will just add what my own doc said. He said that the medial branch nerves sole purpose in life is to transmit pain. That's it...that is all they do! So, they aren't like motor nerves. Again, I was scared and told him I just could not fathom this procedure. He simply said to trust him and I wouldn't feel anything. And I didn't. I believe he gave me a cocktail (IV) of Versed, Fentanly and Toradol. And the only thing I remember saying is "How about those Colts?!" That and a feeling of a thump in my leg periodically. And yes, I was awake! I know I said more things I just hope I didn't spill any beans ha!ha! So, I have had this done at least 3 times over the years and each time it gave me about a year or longer in relief. Seriously, it was easier than the facet injections. But my facets were always inflamed anyway.

I am glad the injections weren't too painful for you and you are having some relief. Give it some time...at least two weeks. I remember calling in once and swearing up and down that they didn't work. I was wrong. I just had not given it enough time. And yes, you might have an increase in pain for a bit but it should subside. And the Valium. Isn't it great for an injection procedure?! Sometimes my doc will give me a few but it really depends on the type of injection. Most of the time I just don't take anything.

So, keep us posted as to how you are doing. It's a great thing to get relief.

Oh almost forgot. No, I do not regret the surgery for two reasons. I had cervicogenic headaches every day 24/7 for 3 years. And that pain was off the charts! I can still get them periodically but normally can kick them out with ice, heat and my regulars meds. Secondly, and most importantly, the C3/C4 level is very critical due to the phrenic nerve. My Neurosurgeon had stated that any fall, any accident, etc. would either cause me to stop breathing or I would be paralyzed for life. So, the C3/C4 was in very, very bad shape. The C5/C6 was going then but I managed to hold off for two more years. In any case, no I don't regret either one. Last summer I was told that the C4/C5 is getting bad so I am keeping an eye on that level so to speak. I really don't want to go through this again due to the spasms that can be horrendous. But if I have to, I will.

I think most everyone is in violent agreement on that point.

Doc

"Anyway, I am giggling at you. I shouldn't say that. What I mean is I am understanding of your fear of the RF. I could NOT wrap my brain around it! I thought just as you did. If they are going to destroy the medial branch nerves, I WILL feel it!! WRONG! I didn't feel a thing! What your doctor told you is correct. So, I will just add what my own doc said. He said that the medial branch nerves sole purpose in life is to transmit pain."

Thanks for the information on your experiences Kathi....it helps me so much because, truly, I just don't get it. When my doctors handout says things like "semi-permanent" results.....really!!!!! What the heLL does SEMI permanent mean....who writes this stuff?!?!

I am waffling with the decision with the ablation vs ESI because even though the pain has softened, it is only lower, like someone turned the dial from 10 to 5...enough to get me out of bed and more functional but not ready to resume swimming and physical therapy. My doc explained that if not ALL the pain was gone, he did not get all the facet joints that were affected. You do encourage me by saying your relief was a yr or longer, that is terrific.

Your advice to give it two weeks was also very helpful because I thought it would only be a few days that would indicate my best result.

You certainly have gone through quite an ordeal and having to now deal with a fragile c3 c4 that if damaged could cause paralysis or stopping breathing is so stressful. I hope you never have to deal with that issue worsening. Do you ever wear a cervical collar or anything to protect yourself? Or perhaps do PT or exercises to strengthen your neck and upper back?

Again, thanks for sharing. Bless you, Diandra

Dianda,

I am pretty sure what semi-permanent means is that while the nerves are ablated they do grow back. That is why RF's are repeated. Which is what is good about them. As I said, I would have about a year or so of relief and over time could pretty much tell when I needed another one. But it takes a long time for them to grow back which is why I would have long periods of relief.

I am glad your pain has dialed back. And your doc is correct about the various levels. That was what was happening to me originally. My first PM just wasn't getting to the correct pain generator. They were forever giving me injections but missing the C3/C4 or at least not getting it right. Of course at that time I had Interns doing it which was being overseen by my PM. In any case, my entire cervical spine had issues. So, yes, it can take a few times before they find the right one. Anyway, my second spine doc, who is the best in town btw, found it right off the bat! And I had two or three Selective Nerve Root injections done as well.

Oh, my C3/C4 is fused now. Also, the C5/C6. It is the level in the middle that they are watching. But I haven't really had any symptoms yet. And yes, I wore a soft collar after my surgeries. Sometimes I will put one back on if I start to get a headache. And oh yes to the PT!! Too numerous to count! They tell you, keep your neck muscles soft and pliable, yet strong. It IS difficult to do and the docs will admit as much. I found though, over time, that what worked best for me was massage therapy and aqua therapy. There is a hospital here that works strictly with spinal disorders patients in the water. And they knew what they were doing! Believe me, not all PT is helpful. I found that out the hard way and a couple of times they made things worse. And I am not "downing" PT. It is just that I had a couple of youngsters, fresh out of college that thought they knew more than the patient did. Since that time, the Spine Group I go to has their own therapists thank goodness!

In all honesty what helps is simply being in the water and doing the exercises I was taught to do a long time ago. Through the winter months I just go easy. Over time I have learned what I can and cannot do. And it hasn't been too bad; just the lumbar acts up every now and then.

I wouldn't be too overly concerned about the RF. I know, it is difficult to wrap your mind around it. But talk it over with your doc and he can set you at ease. I did that very thing at least two or three times before I had it done. Hang in there Diandra!

Hello Diandra;
I have limited knowledge on blocks because I had only one two years ago & it didn't work 4 me. I hope things work out smooth for you with this waterfall of information in here. I can give you though, a link that may help you better understand what is actually happening to your body and why. experience is the best teacher they say. A block is what it says, a block, stopping or trying to stop/prevent something malfunctioning in our bodies. Enough of me ranting, here is the link it has 7 pages of info on your initial post. Best of luck with the treatments and may your pain level decrease immensely.
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/718292_!