For those of you who are thinking about it, good luck. My doctors suck. I am about ready to file a complaint with the state of California on two of them. I called my Pain Med and Neurologist about 3am, left a msg. I requested an emergency appt with my Neurologist because Restless Legs Syndrome is driving me crazy. ReQuip, Neuronitin, Valium, and other things were a joke.

I have only had a few hours sleep since Saturday night. I finally used 15mg Oxycodone for relief and it worked. Just great. I want off Opiates and due to no support from my doctors I had to use an opiate to get some sleep. I am NOT happy with them.

I am feeling better this afternoon, I hope to get some good sleep tonight. Thanks to Oxycodone.

On the bright side of things I don't miss morphine, demerol, Fentanyl, etc. a little bit. I did not miss Oxycodone either.

If I had any advice to you, expect the unexpected.

My legs get restless when I try to stop my pain meds too. Drives me crazy. I hope you find a doctor who will help you with this rather than throw you to the dogs, so to speak. I have stopped all drugs before and after about 5 days it passes...hope that helps.

Best!
J

Thanks for the encouragement. It was 167 hours ago that I took my last morphine.

Due to either bad doctors or uncaring doctors, take your choice....my wife figured out the Librium was causing my RLS. I quit it and have not had SEVERE RLS in a couple of days. Of course, we HOPE it is that simple. I raised my Neurontin from 900mg a day to 1200 during this time, hoping it might make some difference.

I have had 3 or 4 days where I sleep all day and my wife can't wake me up. She shakes me, she yells at me, my Medic Alert Dog is frantic... my wife tells me she licks my face, sits on me (I was laying on the bed), she will even lay on my chest (45 pound Portuguese Water Dog) and lick my face or "punch" my chin with her nose. After I finally got enough strength to get up today, she followed me to the shower and laid outside it until I came out, she followed me into the family room and laid in front of me.... watching me the whole time. I have never seen her so worried (?) apprehensive (?) instinctively concerned (?).
I am amazed at her intuitiveness. She is my Service/Medic Alert Dog and .... wow ... she even follows me to the bathroom. Before I started this ... CCHS ... I quit breathing a lot when asleep. I did not say that well. CCHS is self explanatory. When you sleep, your brain/CNS tells your heart to beat and for you to breathe. Mine does not tell me to breathe. My brain does not know when it is out of oxygen. At the National Jewish Hospital in Denver, CO they ran my Pulse Ox down to 18. EIGHTEEN folks. At 88 your doctor would want you to be checked out. I knew my chest was warm, but I was talking to the doctors the whole time. What I did think was odd was that we had a LOT of people in the room while doing this...seems like at least 7 doctors and nurses. So going to sleep without my Ventilator and oxygen is dangerous for me.

Anyway, my wife is quite concerned too. She does not want to hospitalize me, but she is quite concerned about my not breathing and being so hard to wake up. It can take her a half hour (easily) to wake me up. If she shakes me, I roll over. If she yells at me, I ignore her (so she says ... I really don't remember). I am so tired I can't hardly stand.

BUT I DON'T MISS OPIATES, I DON'T LIKE OPIATES AND I HAVE NO DESIRE TO TAKE THEM.
I HAVE MORPHINE WITHIN 3 FEET OF WHERE I WATCH TV AND DON'T CARE. I WILL TAKE THE AVINZA TO MY DOCTOR AS TOXIC WASTE. I CANNOT IMAGINE WHY I WOULD TAKE ANY MORE.

That said, severe RLS means I have to take Oxycodone. I have taken it 3 times since last Saturday. 7.5mg once and 15mg twice. Since I don't seem to have any symptoms tonight, I won't take any. (Famous last words) It does seem like....if I don't take any and I have a problem, I need 15mg to "catch up" and defeat the RLS. If I take 7.5mg as I go to bed, I "get ahead" of the problem and sleep all night. I may be kidding myself. But I do NOT desire the opiates. They are merely a tool. I tried 2400mg of Neurontin, 15mg of Valium, ReQuip and something else ---- did no good. 15mg of oxycodone nailed the RLS in a short period of time and I could sleep.

If I did not mention it, I only got a few hours sleep the first few days. I fought severe RLS and refused to take an opiate. I think I am better off taking the 7.5mg or even half of that
so I can get some sleep.

If any of you understand this detox stuff, please tell me if I am making a mistake. I know every human body is different, but this seems to work for me.

I had hoped for the legendary "4 day detox" and that life would be wonderful by today. Now I am just gritting my teeth and taking it one day at a time. I am so amazed at how tired I am. Not sore and worn out exactly, just dog tired. As my wife has noted, I have slept most of at least 3 days. Makes no sense to me. Every time I wake up I have a little black nose on my chest or next to my face. My little girl and I are getting closer by the minute. She isn't a fur kid because she has hair, but she has really become my dog in the last few months. She knows..... somehow .... I am sick and she is determined to take care of me the best she can. I wish I were half as good a person as she is. I will win this battle. Never fear.

PS - when I started this, I thought I might get off morphine a few months to see if my other medical problems got better. And if they did not, I would go back on it. NO WAY.
Not after this. I pray to the Lord above I never need them outside of surgery. I am one of the luckiest men on Earth that I don't like them. I don't crave them. I am not addicted. In fact, I have forgotten to take them a few times. I don't want to push my luck. One detox is enough for me and my wife and my little 4 legged girl. Prayers gratefully accepted.

I have no experience with morphine so I can't speak to that. I think we are all different in how we respond to our medications. I hate them too, but I hate the alternative worse. I take as little as possible and go sometimes days without any. Do I have an addiction to them? Not mental. My body will tell me that it missed them, however, by giving my restless legs or a headache. I think it's important to have a doctor advise you on this, and maybe what you need is a new doctor? Good luck and hang in there.

Been 32 days. I am off morphine. At least I don't miss it one bit. But I picked up a nasty cold/flu from our grandson and it gave my wife and I, and our 31 year old daughter lung infections. I have NEVER heard of that in my life.

Anyway, I went into my Chronic Bronchitis Mode and wound up sick again. Grrrrrrrr.

My Pain Med doctor is a good guy, but his staff is terrible. I tried to make an appt with him - again and was told he only sees new patients.

I detoxed on my own. I was told it can take as long as 60-90 days to get all of it out of our systems, so maybe I am premature to say I have detoxed.

My back pain is not as bad as a few years ago, but I am being VERY careful not to do anything to hurt it.

If I learned anything from this, it would be to ask the Pain Med doctor, going in, if he will supervise your detox. I am zero for two doctors locally. The first said he did not know how to detox me, so I started this on my own. I guess I will finish it on my own too.

Enough whining, better days ahead.....

Weird thing about opiates. When I first started taking them, I was never addicted to them, just took them a few times a week if that. They seem to chip away at you until you ARE addicted to them.

By whole life I have never been addicted to anything and I have had plenty of chances. I drank like a fish all thru my twenties and I barely drink at all now in my 30's. I smoked for one year cause my young girlfriend at the time did, only around her. Haven't picked up a smoke since. I just don't have an addictive personality but with opioids, give them time and eventually they break thru and get you addicted.

What I believe happens which is different from other things is that your biology changes. Your body chemistry changes and THAT is something you can't fight.

Well, I took myself, with no help from the medical community from 180mg of Avinza down to 90mg in either 1 or 2 days with no reaction. 60 was not possible physically. I tried. My first pain med dr. told me he did not know how to "detox" me. I was shocked and angry...asking him how in the ^%&$#&* did the state certify him to pass the pills out if he was NOT qualified to get people off. I called the great state of confusion (AKA Calif.) and the state medical board (lower case as a token of disrespect in this case) said that was correct. They did not have to know how to get me off. That is what detox centers do. I quit him and went looking for another Pain Med dr.

I was trying to get off the opiates in the fall of 2007 and no help. PM dr's acted like I was a drug seeking guy, NOT someone trying to get off. After about 45 days I was getting low on Avinza (remember, I went from 180mg a day to 90mg, so I had some left over - so to speak). I used them while finding my next PM Dr. So when I am not filing a complaint against this PM dr. and his staff, I am also trying not to burn a bridge.

I do not understand the PM dr. out here. If you are getting off, or trying to get off, they act like they don't want you around or something. Frustrating.

As I have said... I do not feel addicted. I have not taken Avinza for over 30 days and do not regret turning them back in to one of my doctors as toxic waste. I am about out of the last Oxycodone, so I will be through with it I hope. I may be kidding myself, but I don't crave any of it. I am in pain. More than I had hoped I would be, but my respiratory system demands I try something. As I said earlier, on one occasion, it took my wife and an RN about 30 minutes to wake me up. Yelling, shaking me...I knew they were there, but I could not remember how to wake up. I squeezed their hand and so on...only after they cleared my airway and put continuous flow oxygen canullas in my nose and held my mouth shut did I come around. Sitting here after the oral surgery, I was on a liquid diet and had a mouth full of Chicken Noodle Soup. I could not remember how to swallow it. I finally leaned forward and let the soup fall out of my mouth into the bowl, then poured it out. This does not take into account that my memory is gone. When talking about basic items I have to ask my friends and family things like.... "what is the word for going up a ladder?" --
They would say "climbing" (as an example). Simple words. I have taught graduate level
seminars in movie theater size venues. I can't remember simple words now. Please don't think I am complaining, just stating why I have to try to get off the opiates. I have little choice. My dad died with Alzheimer's .... he got it at around 82 years old. Twenty years older than I am. My actual age is about 63 (just had a birthday), but my effective age is about 75 right now. There is a website you can go to figure out what your effective age is, but I can't remember it.

So please ... wish me luck getting off them. My bladder, my urinary tract, my colonary tract, my kidneys, my respiratory system, my neurological system .... (had the hole in my heart fixed in 2007 - it is ok), all of me seems to be malfunctioning and a lot of it is on the list as side effects of Avinza. (EDIT: Esophagus, Vocal Cords too) Memory shot.... time to see if I can escape with what is left of my life. I owe my wife and family that much.

First, all doctors are primadonnas. Even if he really didn't know how to detox you, no way he would ever admit that to anyone.

Second, I've never ever ever heard of a doc's office that was "only seeing new patients". What??? I've heard them say plenty of times that they are NOT taking on any new patients but I've NEVER heard of them say they are ONLY taking new patients. THAT makes NO sense whatsoever.

Every situation has two sides and yours is just one side of the story. I hope you are not living in the world of denial cause you and your loved ones will suffer.

Hi dllfo,

I stopped taking ms contin and norco cold turkey. No help with my doctor at all because she gave me one months supply and said cant accept my insurance anymore cya....medi-cal was the insurance.

The first two weeks were absolutely horrendous! After that things would get better day by day with the rls lasting well into the second month. About the second week into the 3rd month I realized that I was feeling quite normal.

It is a very difficult thing to kick, and please dont beat yourself up for taking any pain meds for the rls. I too took a few norco just to get the edge off the intense rls, and flu like symptoms.

I still have the pain, but I am sooo glad to be free of the morphine. I can take the norco when things start getting out of hand, and wont ever get dependant on the other stuff ever again. Everything will improve if the morphine was messin with your breathing, you will even think clearer.

Too bad the pain just wont go away lol.

Reasons for detoxing are mostly to stop the side effects of high dose narcotics, such as dyspnea (difficult breathing), and terrible constipation (for those not paying attention to the proper diet, and use of adjunct methods to help alleviate this problem). If your pain has diminished and you find yourself wanting to get off narcotics, here are a few pointers.
A SLOW withdrawal of the narcotics is vastly better than cold turkey, but you have to have free time to do it. The drug CLONIDINE (an "alpha adrenergic drug) can be prescribed to help with the nasty freaky movements that drive you to distraction. BENZODIAZEPINES such as CLONOPIN are anti-seizure, which is basically what RLS and the other movement manifestations are all about. The mixed-agonist-antagonst opiate drug Buprenorphine, often is used to slowly wean one from opiate agonists. Cold turkey opiate withdrawal is hell, but does not result in the propensity to cause death, such as cold turkey alcohol withdrawal does.
For chronic pain patients, one should NEVER get poor treatment from the medical community. Anything less than "all the help that they can give you" is malpractice. YOU didn't choose to become addicted to narcotics; they were prescribed to you by the medical community to control life ruining PAIN. If you have to be on them for the rest of your life, this is NECCESSARY. Few chronic pain patients feel the euphoric effects of narcotics and don't seek to rapidly increase the therapeutic doses that are prescribed, do not crush controlled release tablets (they are usually also given quick release tablets for breakthrough pain), and don't double doctor or seek illicit "extra supplies". The bottom line is, narcotics can be used long term, but pain relief for the "extreme chronic pain patient" gets tricky because side effects do warrant periodic dosage reductions.
A good pain doctor can recognize the difference between users and abusers of narcotic pain medication. Unfortunately, we are stuck with the status quo until opioids are developed which do not cross the into the brain, but can effectively block peripheral opiate receptors, so that brain penetrating opioid agonists can then be administered long term without the terrible side effects that limit their great effectiveness at stopping life disrupting chronic pain.