[jimkh]

Basically I have one upper tooth which has been mildly painful for some time. It sometimes throbs at night. Some time ago it also became a fair bit more painful and then the pain went away and hasnt come back. It is darker in color compared to all the other teeth and after applying ice to it, I can confirm that I cant feel anything. Although to be fair i applied the ice to the same teeth the other side of my mouth and that one was also not that responsive but i did feel something.

The problem is the xray they did, could not identify an infection conclusively. So i dont want to have it pulled out if it doesnt need to be. But it could also be dead and infected.

Is it wise to have it pulled if infected? i have read it shouldnt be pulled ot if infected. I dont want a root canal so if it pulled out, will it solve the inection?
or not?

The other mystery is that i have had swollen lymph nodes in my neck and armpit and even slightly in the groin.

Is it possible for this tooth to be the cause? My dentist says no. But no other cause has been found for the lymph nodes and it has persisted for 3 months.
Normally i understand any swelling of a lymph node would be localised near the tooth. But is it really so rare and unlikely to affect all your nodes?

[Bryanna]

Hi jimkh,

I am in the dental field and can offer you some information here.

The infection from a tooth can and will spread to other areas of the body. The lymphatic system is one of the first places it might go to. So your dentist has misinformed you if he told you differently.

Your description indicates something is wrong with that tooth and the discoloring usually indicates infection and death of the nerves in a tooth. Not all tooth infection show up radio graphically until they have spread way beyond the tooth.

Any chance you could post the x-ray here?

Bryanna

Originally Posted by jimkh

Basically I have one upper tooth which has been mildly painful for some time. It sometimes throbs at night. Some time ago it also became a fair bit more painful and then the pain went away and hasnt come back. It is darker in color compared to all the other teeth and after applying ice to it, I can confirm that I cant feel anything. Although to be fair i applied the ice to the same teeth the other side of my mouth and that one was also not that responsive but i did feel something.

The problem is the xray they did, could not identify an infection conclusively. So i dont want to have it pulled out if it doesnt need to be. But it could also be dead and infected.

Is it wise to have it pulled if infected? i have read it shouldnt be pulled ot if infected. I dont want a root canal so if it pulled out, will it solve the inection?
or not?

The other mystery is that i have had swollen lymph nodes in my neck and armpit and even slightly in the groin.

Is it possible for this tooth to be the cause? My dentist says no. But no other cause has been found for the lymph nodes and it has persisted for 3 months.
Normally i understand any swelling of a lymph node would be localised near the tooth. But is it really so rare and unlikely to affect all your nodes?

[jimkh]

Originally Posted by Bryanna

Hi jimkh,

I am in the dental field and can offer you some information here.

The infection from a tooth can and will spread to other areas of the body. The lymphatic system is one of the first places it might go to. So your dentist has misinformed you if he told you differently.

Your description indicates something is wrong with that tooth and the discoloring usually indicates infection and death of the nerves in a tooth. Not all tooth infection show up radio graphically until they have spread way beyond the tooth.

Any chance you could post the x-ray here?

Bryanna

hi,

but is it possible for ALL lymph nodes to swell? i have been told it cannot affect all the nodes but only the ones which drain the tooth area which are the nodes under the jaw and possibly neck.

But in my case i have swollen nodes in the armpits and even a bit in the groin. I dont know if its related to my tooth or not.

i will try to obtain the xray but it will take some time to get hold of it from the dentist. They might even refuse to hand it over.

can you tell me what is the answer to this? Given the problems with root canal and the time it takes to do it, i think i would rather just get the tooth pulled out.

So what is the process to getting it pulled out? Is it considerably more risky than pulling a healthy tooth like wisdom tooth out?

also since the xray is inconclusive and perhaps the infection is mild, i dont want to lose a tooth if it turns out to not be infected?

[Kitt]

Welcome jimkh.

[Bryanna]

Hi jimkh,

I am going to re-post your questions and reply in bold type. This can make it easier to follow

<but is it possible for ALL lymph nodes to swell?>>

YES IT IS VERY POSSIBLE FOR LYMPH NODES TO SWELL IN OTHER AREAS THAT WOULD SEEM UNASSOCIATED WITH A TOOTH. KEEP IN MIND THAT THE BACTERIA IN OUR MOUTH TRAVELS THROUGH OUR BLOOD STREAM, THROUGH OUR DIGESTIVE SYSTEM AND THROUGH OUT RENAL COLLECTING SYTSTEM (BLADDER/KIDNEYS). THE BACTERIA CAN ALSO SETTLE IN THE BRAIN, ORGANS, LIMBS, JOINTS.... ANYPLACE THAT IT HAS TRAVELED TO. ORAL AND TOOTH INFECTIONS CAN BECOME VERY SERIOUS AND THEY SHOULD NEVER BE LEFT UNATTENDED TO.

<<i will try to obtain the xray but it will take some time to get hold of it from the dentist. They might even refuse to hand it over.>>

THE XRAY IS YOUR LEGAL PROPERTY. IF IT IS A DIGITAL XRAY THEY CAN EMAIL IT TO YOU. IF IT IS NOT A DIGITAL XRAY THEY CAN SEND A COPY OF IT TO YOU.

<<Given the problems with root canal and the time it takes to do it, i think i would rather just get the tooth pulled out. >>

THE CHOICE IS YOURS. HOWEVER MAKE THE CHOICE THAT YOU FEEL IS IN YOUR BEST INTEREST. THE TIME FRAME SHOULD NOT BE A FACTOR AS MUCH AS THE RISK FACTORS OF RETAINING AN INFECTED TOOTH.

<<So what is the process to getting it pulled out? Is it considerably more risky than pulling a healthy tooth like wisdom tooth out?>>

THE EXTRACTION OF A FULLY ERUPTED TOOTH IS FAIRLY STRAIGHT FORWARD. COMPLICATIONS ARE RARE COMPARED TO THE NUMBER OF EXTRACTIONS THAT HAVE NO COMPLICATIONS. IT IS NOT MORE RISKY THAN EXTRACTING A WISDOM TOOTH.

<<also since the xray is inconclusive and perhaps the infection is mild, i dont want to lose a tooth if it turns out to not be infected?>>

NO YOU DON'T WANT TO LOSE A TOOTH THAT IS NOT INFECTED. THEREFORE, THE PROBLEM WITH THIS TOOTH NEEDS TO BE DIAGNOSED PROPERLY. THERE IS OBVIOUSLY SOMETHING GOING ON FOR A LONG TIME AND THE REASON FOR THAT NEEDS TO BE FIGURED OUT. THE DENTIST SHOULD DO SOME FURTHER TESTING FOR ROOT RESORPTION, ROOT EXPOSURE, DECAY UNDERNEATH THE OLD FILLING, PERIODONTAL DISEASE, MOBILITY, THE TOOTH COULD BE FRACTURED..... THESE ARE THE THINGS THAT NEED TO BE RULED OUT BEFORE REMOVING THIS TOOTH.

ANYTIME A TOOTH IS INFECTED, MILD OR OTHER, THERE IS NO WAY TO PERMANENTLY REVERSE THAT INFECTION. A MILD INFECTION INSIDE OF A TOOTH WILL GET PROGRESSIVELY WORSE. IT IS NOT UNUSUAL FOR AN INFECTED TOOTH TO LOOK "OKAY" ON A DENTAL XRAY.

I hope this information is helpful. If your dentist does not seem interested in exploring the reason for the problems with this tooth..... then see another dentist. Is this dentist your regular dentist or have you not been to the dentist in a long time prior to this time?

Bryanna

[jimkh]

But you scare me when you say the bacteria can go to the brain. So if the infection has spread and is spreading, will taking the tooth out solve it? where will the bacteria which has got into my blood go?

i read that the tooth must not be extracted while its infected. So do i need antibiotics first or not? which antibiotics? and also i read that the area needs to be cleaned once extracted. This is more work than with a wisdom tooth. You dont need to clean a wisdom tooth. So the question is, if the dentist doesnt clean the area properly after extraction cold it lead to more chronic infection?

what frustrated me is that i read abcesses can easily be diagnosed. After tapping the tooth and applying cold, he said he didnt think there was anything wrong. Even though the xray did show something odd, he still did not seem sure.
So what more tests can be done? He didnt see any decay or holes in the tooth. there is no fillings on the tooth.

yes the xray was a digital file - He showed it to me on the computer screen. I will ask him to email it to me and i will post it if and when i obtain it.

yes you are right i have not been to the dentist before this in about 5 years. This is the only teeth which is discolored and giving slight pain and symptoms.

Does the fact that when i apply ice and i cant feel anything not confirm that its dead?

[jimkh]

i forgot to ask if it is an infection, and i decide to have it extracted, will the procedure be painful? since there is infection at the root and since they have to clean the area in addition to extracting it, will the procedure be painful?

[Bryanna]

Hi jimkh,

I will re-post your questions and answer in bold type.

<<But you scare me when you say the bacteria can go to the brain.>>

THE INFORMATION THAT I PROVIDE HERE AND WITH THE PATIENTS THAT I SEE EVERY DAY IS FACTUAL. YES, IT CAN BE SCARY TO THINK ABOUT AN INFECTION TRAVELING TO THE BRAIN OR ELSEWHERE. BUT THAT IS A REAL POSSIBILITY WITH ANY ORAL INFECTION AND IT IS IMPORTANT FOR YOU TO KNOW THAT. THAT IS WHY I GIVE YOU THAT INFORMATION.

<<So if the infection has spread and is spreading, will taking the tooth out solve it? where will the bacteria which has got into my blood go?>>

ANY LONG STANDING ORAL OR TOOTH INFECTION CAN BE DIFFICULT TO ERADICATE COMPLETELY BECAUSE THE BACTERIA CAN MIGRATE TO AREAS THAT ARE NOT VISIBLE TO THE EYE OR RADIO GRAPHICALLY UNTIL THEY ARE LARGE OR DENSE ENOUGH TO BE SEEN. THIS IS WHY I REPETITIVELY INFORM PEOPLE TO NOT HOLD ON TO INFECTED OR ROOT CANALED TEETH.

IDEALLY ONCE A TOOTH BECOMES INFECTED IT SHOULD BE REMOVED TO AVOID THE SPREAD OF INFECTION IN THE FIRST PLACE. IN THESE CASES REMOVING THE TOOTH AND THOROUGHLY DEBRIDING THE SOCKET WILL CURE THE INFECTION.

GOOD AND BAD BACTERIA FILTER THROUGH OUR BLOODSTREAM CONTINUOUSLY EVERY SECOND OF OUR LIVES. OUR IMMUNE SYSTEM IS DESIGNED TO DESTROY THE BACTERIA THAT CAN HARM US. HOWEVER, IF THE BACTERIA BECOMES PREVALENT OR OUR IMMUNE SYSTEM IS ALREADY COMPROMISED WITH ILL HEALTH THAT IS WHEN WE END UP SICK.

<< i read that the tooth must not be extracted while its infected. So do i need antibiotics first or not? which antibiotics?>>

THAT IS FALSE. THERE IS NO AMOUNT OF ANY ANTIBIOTICS THAT WILL CURE AN INFECTED TOOTH. SOMETIMES ANTIBIOTICS ARE PRESCRIBED FOR 3 OR SO DAYS PRIOR TO THE EXTRACTION TO ATTEMPT TO REDUCE THE INFLAMMATION SO THAT THE LOCAL ANESTHETIC IS EFFECTIVE AND THE PROCEDURE IS LESS DIFFICULT. HOWEVER, ANTIBIOTICS ARE NOT ALWAYS NECESSARY PRIOR TO THE REMOVAL OF A TOOTH.

<<and also i read that the area needs to be cleaned once extracted. This is more work than with a wisdom tooth. You dont need to clean a wisdom tooth.>>

AGAIN YOU ARE READING FALSE INFORMATION. EVERY EXTRACTION REQUIRES A THOROUGH DEBRIDEMENT OF THE BONE. EVERY EXTRACTION, INCLUDING WISDOM TEETH BECAUSE EVERY TOOTH HAS A LIGAMENT THAT NEEDS TO BE SCRAPED OUT AND THE BONE NEEDS TO BE CLEANED UP.

<< So the question is, if the dentist doesnt clean the area properly after extraction cold it lead to more chronic infection?>>

YES. IT IS IMPERATIVE FOR THE ORAL SURGEON TO THOROUGHLY SCRAPE THE SOCKET CLEAN.

<<what frustrated me is that i read abcesses can easily be diagnosed.>>

NOT NECESSARILY. DENTAL XRAYS ARE ONLY 2 DIMENSIONAL WHICH MEANS THERE ARE AREAS THAT ARE NOT PICKED UP ON THESE XRAYS. THE DENTIST CAN ALTER THE ANGLE OF THE XRAY OR TRY DOING THE BI SECTING TECHNIQUE TO VIEW OTHER AREAS. BUT AS I HAVE SAID BEFORE NOT ALL ORAL INFECTIONS CAN BE SEEN ON XRAYS UNTIL THEY ARE ADVANCED.

<<After tapping the tooth and applying cold, he said he didnt think there was anything wrong. Even though the xray did show something odd, he still did not seem sure. >>

IF YOU HAVE A CHRONIC PROBLEM WITH A TOOTH.... IT MEANS THERE IS A PROBLEM WITH THE TOOTH. IF IT IS FRACTURED THAT CAN BE DIFFICULT TO DETECT CLINICALLY. THE FRACTURE IS OFTEN NOT SEEN UNTIL THE TOOTH IS REMOVED AND THE TOOTH CAN BE SEEN IN IT'S ENTIRETY.

WHAT WAS THE "ODD" THAT HE SAW ON YOUR XRAY??

<<So what more tests can be done? He didnt see any decay or holes in the tooth. there is no fillings on the tooth. >>

IF THE COLD TEST CAME UP POSITIVE... MEANING YOU HAD NO FEELING WHEN HE PUT SOMETHING EXTREMELY COLD ON THE TOOTH THAT INDICATES THE NERVE IS DYING OR DEAD. ALL HEALTHY TEETH WILL REACT TO PUTTING SOMETHING VERY COLD DIRECTLY ON IT.

<<yes the xray was a digital file - He showed it to me on the computer screen. I will ask him to email it to me and i will post it if and when i obtain it.>>

THE XRAY IS YOUR PROPERTY. I WILL BE GLAD TO TAKE A LOOK IF YOU POST IT HERE.

<<yes you are right i have not been to the dentist before this in about 5 years. This is the only teeth which is discolored and giving slight pain and symptoms.>>

OKAY SO NOT HAVING ROUTINE DENTAL CLEANINGS CAN INDICATE THAT YOU HAVE A BUILD UP OF HARD PLAQUE ON YOUR TEETH. WHEN THIS PLAQUE IS NOT REMOVED, IT WILL BUILD UP BELOW THE GUM LINE AND ADHERE TO THE ROOT SURFACE OF THE TEETH. SOME TEETH CAN BECOME SENSITIVE OR PAINFUL AND PRESENT SYMPTOMS SIMILAR TO A TOOTH ACHE. THE LONGER THIS PLAQUE IS ABLE TO FORM ON THE TEETH THE MORE TOOTH PROBLEMS WILL OCCUR AND ONCE IT IS REMOVED, THERE CAN BE SENSITIVITIES THAT WOULD NOT NORMALLY BE THERE IF THE PLAQUE HAD NOT ACCUMULATED IN THE FIRST PLACE. SO IT WOULD BEHOOVE YOU TO HAVE YOUR TEETH PROFESSIONALLY CLEANED.

<<Does the fact that when i apply ice and i cant feel anything not confirm that its dead?>>

WHEN A TOOTH IS NOT RESPONSIVE TO ICE BEING DIRECTLY APPLIED TO IT... THIS CAN INDICATE SOMETHING UNHEALTHY IS GOING ON WITH THE NERVES OF THAT TOOTH.

Bryanna

[jimkh]

dentist said he can only provide a print out rather than by email, is that ok? or is he wrong?

and also i dont understand how a root canal doesnt cure the infection. And why wont an infected tooth go away on its own? the body fights infections all the time and succeeds. Why cant the body fight the infection from a tiny tooth?

It sends white blood cells to fight it and then clears it up. yes it could reoccur but if it does then the body fights it again.

i had a blood test recently and it didnt show anything unusual. Any serious infection which would harm your health would show up on the blood test no?

[jimkh]

also im not sure i agree with you on dental cleanings. I specifically declined a dental cleaning recently because after some consideration it became clear to me that it can in fact cause more damage. If youre not careful you can peel off the layer under the plaque and enamel too. Dentists tell you not to brush your teeth too vigorously in case of damage yet they then go and apply 100 times the force using sharp metal instruments to 'clean' your teeth. Makes no sense to me.

Also tooth cleaning has been very painful in the past. Theres no way to avoid that is there? We all know how horrible sharp tooth pain feels. Thats what causes us to avoid the dentist.