Hello-
I am a first time poster. I have suffered with facial, tooth, jaw pain for 2 years. I have been diagnosed with ATN/TN. Swelling on the side that hurts. My pain for the past 8 months has been on my top 2 back molars. My last trip to the dentist was to work on one of the molars that had a leaking filling. While the dentist was working he saw that the tooth was cracked--at that time he removed a large portion of the tooth above the gumline, thought he fixed it. Needless to say it still hurts....bad! I wonder if it could be cracked down to the root?
The tooth that is next to it has about a 20 year old root canal & crown, that tooth hurts as well. I do know that the root of both of these teeth do go into the sinus. I am constantly having sinus infections with extreme tooth pain.
I go to a oral surgeon on Monday. I want both of these teeth to be pulled. I fear that they may be infected & a big part of my facial, jaw pain issues. But, if it is a nerve problem---having them pulled could potentially make things worse.
What should I do?????
Thanks

Hi,

Lingering pain in the face and jawbone is often misdiagnosed as ATN/TN because teeth are often over looked as the cause of the problem. It is typical for the infection residing inside of the root canaled tooth to spread beyond the tooth into the bone which can compromise a tooth on either side of the it. This infection can also spread to the sinuses which may be what you have been experiencing with your constant sinus infections.

The other molar that was just worked on may be fractured beyond repair. The xrays will show if this is the case. The only way to get rid of the infection and pain is to remove the source which are the teeth. If the infection has spread to the sinuses and/or there is an opening into the sinus, then the healing from the extractions will take a bit longer. It is imperative to follow the post op instructions to the "T"... as well as no smoking and no alcohol until the surgical site has completely healed closed.

Please give us an update after you see the surgeon on monday.

Bryanna






Y

Thanks for the reply.
I thought that it was difficult to see fractures on a x-ray?

As far as the teeth being infected, I hope that is the problem. Living with a life sentence of TN/ATN is not what I want.

I had a lower molar that was showing the same symtoms as these upper molars are. It was infected & did not show up on the x-ray, once the dentist started the root canal he saw the infection...the root canal was completed, 4 days later I was still in pain I went back & wanted it pulled. Once it was pulled the dentist said it was swollen at the root. Not sure what that means...

I guess I am worried they are going to say the 2 teeth look healthy-(even though they both have had extensive work on)- & should not be pulled. They could blame the pain on ATN. Should I say I want them pulled regardless?

The pain these 2 teeth begin once a breath of air hits them, when I take a drink of something...it is a lingering pain.

Thanks so much.

Hi, sorry you are having the dental issues. If my own teeth had RC done on them and hurt, no question, I would have them removed. RC teeth are weak to begin with, and often are the source of continual pain and problems. I wish you all the best on Monday. ginnie

Hi,

Sometimes fractures within a tooth are hard to see on a typical xray. If the xray is digital, meaning it can be reproduced on a computer screen, then the gray scale can of the actual picture can be made darker or lighter which can make the fractures more apparent. In your case as you have described this molar, the fracture will be easier to detect than if it were in a tooth that had not had the same dental history.

The root canaled molar is infected because ALL root canaled teeth have some degree of infection within the microscopic canals in addition to anaerobic bacteria which resides inside these and other canals. If this tooth was root canaled 20 yrs ago as you stated, it may also contain formocresol inside as well because that is what was used to irrigate/disinfect the large canals and this chemical cannot be removed from the tooth.

The lingering pain that you feel with cold temps indicates a fractured tooth and/or tooth decay in that molar that was just restored. You may also be told that you cannot feel pain on a root canaled tooth because it is a non vital tooth. However, because the tooth is residing in vital bone and a somewhat vital periodontal ligament, yes, you can have pain with a root canaled tooth. It is the bone and ligament that hurts, not the tooth. It is the infection from the root canaled tooth that causes necrotic changes/infection in the bone and ligament. So as long as that tooth is present, you will have pain.

All of these circumstances that I have described can cause or contribute to nerve pain within the bundles of nerves in various areas of the face. So once the original source of this pain is gone, which can be these teeth, you may still have facial pain until the affected nerves heal. This could take days, weeks or longer. It may be intermittent or chronic. It just depends on how irritated the nerves have become.

Let me clarify your description of your lower tooth problem... you wrote...

<<I had a lower molar that was showing the same symtoms as these upper molars are. It was infected & did not show up on the x-ray, once the dentist started the root canal he saw the infection...the root canal was completed, 4 days later I was still in pain I went back & wanted it pulled. Once it was pulled the dentist said it was swollen at the root. Not sure what that means..>>

THE ONGOING SYMPTOMS ARE THE SAME ON MOST ROOT CANALED TEETH DUE TO THE INFECTION. WHEN THE DENTIST OPENED THE TOOTH TO DO THE ROOT CANAL, THERE WAS BLOOD AND PUS INDICATING INFECTION. SINCE THERE IS NO WAY TO ACCESS THE MICROSCOPIC CANALS, THE INFECTION REMAINED IN THOSE AREAS AND PROLIFERATED THROUGH THE END OF THE ROOT. IN YOUR CASE IT WAS EITHER PRESENT ON THE XRAY AND NOT PICKED UP OR DURING THE ROOT CANAL, THE DENTIST PERFORATED THE END OF THE ROOT AND THE INFECTION SPILLED INTO THE BONE. THIS AREA OF INFECTION IN THE BONE IS WHAT HE WAS DESCRIBING AS...the dentist said it was swollen at the root.

I cannot tell you what to do, that choice is up to you. I have given you the information to make an informed decision and the bottom line is simply this... retaining these teeth means keeping the infection and the pain. The nerve problem may spread making it difficult to eradicate in the future.

I am going to re post a thread (after this post) that gives clear information on root canals that you can take with you to your dentist is you wanted to. Also, keep in mind that there has to be a culprit and origin to your pain and your sinus infections. Both of these teeth are unhealthy and are located in the region of your pain and sinuses.

I hope you are able to get the help that you need. Be very leery if the dentist tries to convince you that these teeth will be okay with additional treatment because they will continue to be a source of infection so long as they are present.

Bryanna



.
I thought that it was difficult to see fractures on a x-ray?

As far as the teeth being infected, I hope that is the problem. Living with a life sentence of TN/ATN is not what I want.

I had a lower molar that was showing the same symtoms as these upper molars are. It was infected & did not show up on the x-ray, once the dentist started the root canal he saw the infection...the root canal was completed, 4 days later I was still in pain I went back & wanted it pulled. Once it was pulled the dentist said it was swollen at the root. Not sure what that means...

I guess I am worried they are going to say the 2 teeth look healthy-(even though they both have had extensive work on)- & should not be pulled. They could blame the pain on ATN. Should I say I want them pulled regardless?

The pain these 2 teeth begin once a breath of air hits them, when I take a drink of something...it is a lingering pain.

Thanks so much.[/QUOTE]

Root Canal Therapy..... What is it really???

A lengthy article, but well worth the read if you want to be well informed. It references experts such as Dr Weston Price, a Cleveland dentist who authored the book entitled Nutrition and Physical Degeneration and founded the Weston Price Foundation. He also wrote a textbook on root canals in 1922 which continues to upset the mindset of the ADA and others who advocate root canal therapy. Also, Dr Hal Huggins a Colorado dentist who is world renowned for his relentless efforts in public awareness about the toxicity of mercury fillings, etc. Just to name a few....

http://tuberose.com/Root_Canals.html

Here is just a tiny excerpt from the above site......

>>>>Leave the root canal or cavitation in the body, and there is the potential of creating an unwanted autoimmune or degenerative disease that could be life threatening. Toxins and bacteria can both leak from these contamination sites wreaking havoc with a person’s cardiovascular, endocrine, nervous and immune systems. The public needs to be informed, so they can make educated choices in the trade-off between toxic convenience and health.>>>>

>>>Shouldn’t we question the wisdom of supplying a haven for these microbes so close to our brain and circulatory system? Does this information validate the claims of “sterile” root canals? Dentists claim they can “sterilize” the tooth before forcing the gutta percha wax down into the canal. Perhaps they can sterilize a column of air in the center of the tooth, but is that really where the problem is? Bacteria wandering out of the dentinal tubules is what Price was finding, and what we were finding in the crushed tooth samples. But the problem doesn't end there. Huggins tested blood samples adjacent to the removed <root canaled> teeth and analyzed them for the presence of anaerobic bacteria. Approximately 400 percent more bacteria were found in the blood surrounding the root canal tooth than were in the tooth itself. It seems that the tooth is the incubator. The periodontal ligament supplies more food, therefore higher concentration of bacteria. But the highest pathological growth was in the bone surrounding the dead tooth. Looking at bacterial needs, there is a smorgasbord of bacterial nutrients present in the bone. This explains the tremendous increase in bacterial concentration in the blood surrounding the root canal tooth. Try sterilizing that volume of bone.>>>

All feedback is welcome!
Bryanna

I know what I need to do now....I just need to try & stay firm on what I would like done. I hate when they push SAVING teeth!

I will let you know how it goes on Monday.

Thanks so much

Hi,

I'm in the dental profession... over 30 yrs.... no one can force you to do anything. Keep in mind that the word "save" means to "retain", not cure, and this goes for anything that has to do with root canals and/or an infected tooth and/or a tooth that is badly broken or fractured. I've provided sources to help you become more knowledgeable about this subjet so that you can make your own choices based on what you believe to be in your best interest.

We'll look for your post on monday... good luck!

Bryanna

Hello-
I went to the doc on Monday as planned. He performed x-rays the teeth--look fine on film. He gave me a oral cortisone shot in the area that was hurting & swollen, I will say I have had some relief with that, the swelling has gone down. Before anything is extracted he wants me to have a bone scan, which will take place next week. He is concerned about infection, osteomyelitis? I had a total jaw joint replacement. He said the bone scan will lead us in the right direction of tooth or jaw, then we can do the extraction if needed. I did some research on osteomyelitis of the jaw---not good. I hope it is just the tooth.

Thanks!

Hi help,

I am a bit confused with this last post from you. You said that you've had a "total jaw joint replacement"?? Did you mention that here somewhere else? When did you have that done? Was it on the same side as the teeth that are giving you the trouble?

The cortisone shot is just a bandade and a temporary one at that. Why he gave that to you, I have no idea. He is wise to want the bone scan to help determine the location of infection and bone deterioration. The scan is not always conclusive with diagnosing osteomyelitis but it can be helpful.

Can you post the xrays that he took?

Bryanna