Hey there,

I've been searching around the internet trying to find an answer to my problems, but can't find much about it. Hoping someone on here can help me.

I had a root canal on #14 in 08/11, and around 12/11 I noticed that there was some pain above the tooth, but I couldn't tell if it was coming from my sinuses or from my tooth, and I didn't do anything about it thinking my immune system will take care of it. It wasn't until 05/12 that I actually stuck my finger up in my mouth where I had the pain and I noticed there was a very hard, marble sized lump. I immediately called my dentist, who referred me to an endodontist. During the root canal retreatment he found a missed canal, and said that was the source of the infection, and now that the source of the infection had been cleaned the infection should go away, and over time the bump will disappear too. He also put me on antibiotics. The retreatment was done 4 days ago, and my last day of antibiotics is tomorrow. The problem is the bump is still as large and painful as before. I've never had any drainage into my mouth, and the bump is quite firm to the touch. It's incredibly tender to the touch.

My questions are:

Do I still have an active infection, and do I need to go on another round of antibiotics or call my dentist for further treatment (apico)?

Why is the bump in my mouth so hard, as opposed to pus filled/pimple like?

I'm concerned that after a root canal retreatment, and a full course of antibiotics, there is no change in the size or pain of the bump.

Thanks in advance for any advice.

Hi cinnamongym,

I am re posting a thread that I wrote that explains what a root canal is and why the tooth remains infected irrelevant of the re treatment, including an apicoectomy.

But first let me address what that hard lump is..... since it is not draining, it is most likely a cyst that has formed in the bone and grown into the hard tissue. This is seen frequently with root canaled teeth because it is caused by the bacteria that has been residing in your root canaled tooth. Not just from the "missed canal", but from the microscopic canals that cannot be cleaned out. So the re treatment may have removed some dead nerve material from the missed canal, but it did nothing to access the microscopic ones. Therefore, the tooth will continue to be infected. An apicoectomy is a surgical root canal, it accomplishes the same thing that a re treatment does with the exception that the surgeon physically goes in and removes the cyst. One problem with this is... those microscopic canals are not accessible and they will continue to harbor infectious bacteria which will continue to proliferate and form cysts like you have now. Perhaps the biggest concern to be aware of is that the infection can spread to your sinuses or further. Also, what is this infected tooth doing to your immune system?

Here is that other thread .... gives very explicit information...

Root Canal Therapy..... What is it really???

A lengthy article, but well worth the read if you want to be well informed. It references experts such as Dr Weston Price, a Cleveland dentist who authored the book entitled Nutrition and Physical Degeneration and founded the Weston Price Foundation. He also wrote a textbook on root canals in 1922 which continues to upset the mindset of the ADA and others who advocate root canal therapy. Also, Dr Hal Huggins a Colorado dentist who is world renowned for his relentless efforts in public awareness about the toxicity of mercury fillings, etc. Just to name a few....

http://tuberose.com/Root_Canals.html

Here is just a tiny excerpt from the above site......

>>>>Leave the root canal or cavitation in the body, and there is the potential of creating an unwanted autoimmune or degenerative disease that could be life threatening. Toxins and bacteria can both leak from these contamination sites wreaking havoc with a person’s cardiovascular, endocrine, nervous and immune systems. The public needs to be informed, so they can make educated choices in the trade-off between toxic convenience and health.>>>>

>>>Shouldn’t we question the wisdom of supplying a haven for these microbes so close to our brain and circulatory system? Does this information validate the claims of “sterile” root canals? Dentists claim they can “sterilize” the tooth before forcing the gutta percha wax down into the canal. Perhaps they can sterilize a column of air in the center of the tooth, but is that really where the problem is? Bacteria wandering out of the dentinal tubules is what Price was finding, and what we were finding in the crushed tooth samples. But the problem doesn't end there. Huggins tested blood samples adjacent to the removed <root canaled> teeth and analyzed them for the presence of anaerobic bacteria. Approximately 400 percent more bacteria were found in the blood surrounding the root canal tooth than were in the tooth itself. It seems that the tooth is the incubator. The periodontal ligament supplies more food, therefore higher concentration of bacteria. But the highest pathological growth was in the bone surrounding the dead tooth. Looking at bacterial needs, there is a smorgasbord of bacterial nutrients present in the bone. This explains the tremendous increase in bacterial concentration in the blood surrounding the root canal tooth. Try sterilizing that volume of bone.>>>


Bryanna


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Thanks for your quick reply.

If I go the route of tooth extraction, do I still need to have the cyst removed, or will it go away on it's own?

Also, is tenderness to the touch normal, or is that a sign that the infection is still present?

It does sound to me like the infection is still there in your mouth. Please read that article on Root Cannals. I had several teeth removed, rather than keeping infections in my mouth. ginnie

Hi cinnamongym,

If you have the tooth removed, yes, the cyst would also be removed at that time. Access to the cyst is easiest when removing the tooth because it is actually partially attached to the tooth.

Tenderness in that area is indicative of pressure from the inflammation relative to the infection.

I know this is not what you wanted to hear.... I wish I had more positive news. The source of your problem is the tooth... the infection will be present as long as you have that tooth.

In the dental profession it is common knowledge that root canals and apicoectomies are done in an attempt to "retain" the tooth for an undetermined amount of time. The word "save" is often misrepresented when referencing either of these procedures because it simply means to "retain" not "cure".

Please keep us posted ....
Bryanna

I'm heading to the dentist later today, and am interested to see what he has to say. I don't mind getting the tooth extracted, it's just frustrating after paying for 2 root canals now.

I just have one more question though, around the same time my infection started to hurt I noticed a lot of blood in my nose when I blow it. It never bleeds like a nosebleed, but there's always dried blood in there. Could that be related?

Hi cinnamongym,

Infections in the upper posterior teeth can spread to the sinus. In fact, that is one of the major risks associated with doing root canal therapy and/or apicoectomies in these teeth.

When you get a chance... please send us a note about how things went today at the dentist.

Bryanna



drs.QUOTE=cinnamongym;888557]I'm heading to the dentist later today, and am interested to see what he has to say. I don't mind getting the tooth extracted, it's just frustrating after paying for 2 root canals now.

I just have one more question though, around the same time my infection started to hurt I noticed a lot of blood in my nose when I blow it. It never bleeds like a nosebleed, but there's always dried blood in there. Could that be related?[/QUOTE]

How did the dentist go today.? I am sorry you put the money into the RC twice. I won't do that again either. Hope the appt. turned out OK and that you got the tooth and infection taken care of. ginnie

Hi, and sorry you had trouble with the RC. Usually I go to Bryanna for help, but in this case, I kinda know what is going on. re-treatment of an infected tooth, for most part does not work. You may retain the tooth longer, but that infection is still there. If it is painful, and hurts at all, this is a sign that it does not bode well for the tooth. The truth is RC's extend the life of a tooth, but really never get rid of the infection. Those small cannals they talk about, can never fully be cleaned out and that infection is left in there even with re-treatment. For me, I turned down two RC's altogether, as I have immune problems to begin with. The upper jaw is so close to sinus, and the brain, I did not want to take any chances. Post to Bryanna, she has a much better explaination of the "medical" side of it. Dentists, or perodentists, make alot of money on this proceedure for the most part that does not work. doing it twice is twice the money, and the tooth is still a problem. I got a great little partial, works great, end of problem. I do wish you all the best in what ever you choose to do. ginnie

Hi ginnie,

Thanks for posting this .... your explanation of the chronic infection is very accurate.

You know of my background and that I am in the dental profession for over 30 yrs which means I have dealt with thousands of dental patients. I am always disheartened when a patient has been misinformed about a procedure because I believe it is unethical for dentists to misguide their patients who they know are trusting their word. Telling a patient that the root canal treatment is going to "cure" their infected tooth is totally false. As I have explained here numerous times and you have concurred, the procedure is done to "retain" an infected tooth.... not cure it. I wish there was a miracle procedure that could cure the infection..... but there just isn't one.

There are a lot of people walking around with medical conditions that are inflammatory related..... many of them have one or two things in common, root canaled teeth and/or periodontal disease. The body cannot and will not tolerate constant inflammation and infection.... the body will get sick.

It took many years for the dental profession to outwardly admit the systemic health risks associated with periodontal disease. The push came from the medical profession repetitively stating in their journals to "inform the patient" of this life threatening disease. Once the dental profession realized they had the backing of the medical profession and could profit off of this information, they started to be more pro active in informing their patients about the disease. The down side with informing patients about root canal therapy is that this procedure happens to already be the most profitable one and since it can be done several times on one tooth.... the money to be earned is unbelievable. Most dentists are also leery of informing their patients about the health risks of root canal treatment because many of their patients have already been "sold" on having them in the past. So how does a dentist now go back on his original sales pitch and tell a patient this can make them sick??

Due to the increase in public awareness regarding dental implants ...as well as the profits to be made with doing the implants, it is only a matter of time before all dentists start to share some of the information with their patients about the systemic health risks associated with "retaining" infected teeth. I personally know of some and there are others out there, who are attempting to work this into their practices now.... but it will be very slow and the information will be a bit misconstrued or indecisive as the dentists are afraid to tell the patient too much for fear of legal repercussions pertaining to past treatment which may already have negatively impacted their patients health.

It's a huge undertaking to now try and make good on something that has been so bad, especially when there is no way to remedy the damage that has already been done. I am hopeful that we can turn this around and that I will see this done in my lifetime!

Ginnie.... thanks for all of your thoughtful posts here. I know you are in a whirlwind of your own with selling and moving..... but you're always willing to come here and give us a little piece of yourself. Thanks so much for all that you do.........

Bryanna