Hey there,

I've been searching around the internet trying to find an answer to my problems, but can't find much about it. Hoping someone on here can help me.

I had a root canal on #14 in 08/11, and around 12/11 I noticed that there was some pain above the tooth, but I couldn't tell if it was coming from my sinuses or from my tooth, and I didn't do anything about it thinking my immune system will take care of it. It wasn't until 05/12 that I actually stuck my finger up in my mouth where I had the pain and I noticed there was a very hard, marble sized lump. I immediately called my dentist, who referred me to an endodontist. During the root canal retreatment he found a missed canal, and said that was the source of the infection, and now that the source of the infection had been cleaned the infection should go away, and over time the bump will disappear too. He also put me on antibiotics. The retreatment was done 4 days ago, and my last day of antibiotics is tomorrow. The problem is the bump is still as large and painful as before. I've never had any drainage into my mouth, and the bump is quite firm to the touch. It's incredibly tender to the touch.

My questions are:

Do I still have an active infection, and do I need to go on another round of antibiotics or call my dentist for further treatment (apico)?

Why is the bump in my mouth so hard, as opposed to pus filled/pimple like?

I'm concerned that after a root canal retreatment, and a full course of antibiotics, there is no change in the size or pain of the bump.

Thanks in advance for any advice.

Hi cinnamongym,

I am re posting a thread that I wrote that explains what a root canal is and why the tooth remains infected irrelevant of the re treatment, including an apicoectomy.

But first let me address what that hard lump is..... since it is not draining, it is most likely a cyst that has formed in the bone and grown into the hard tissue. This is seen frequently with root canaled teeth because it is caused by the bacteria that has been residing in your root canaled tooth. Not just from the "missed canal", but from the microscopic canals that cannot be cleaned out. So the re treatment may have removed some dead nerve material from the missed canal, but it did nothing to access the microscopic ones. Therefore, the tooth will continue to be infected. An apicoectomy is a surgical root canal, it accomplishes the same thing that a re treatment does with the exception that the surgeon physically goes in and removes the cyst. One problem with this is... those microscopic canals are not accessible and they will continue to harbor infectious bacteria which will continue to proliferate and form cysts like you have now. Perhaps the biggest concern to be aware of is that the infection can spread to your sinuses or further. Also, what is this infected tooth doing to your immune system?

Here is that other thread .... gives very explicit information...

Root Canal Therapy..... What is it really???

A lengthy article, but well worth the read if you want to be well informed. It references experts such as Dr Weston Price, a Cleveland dentist who authored the book entitled Nutrition and Physical Degeneration and founded the Weston Price Foundation. He also wrote a textbook on root canals in 1922 which continues to upset the mindset of the ADA and others who advocate root canal therapy. Also, Dr Hal Huggins a Colorado dentist who is world renowned for his relentless efforts in public awareness about the toxicity of mercury fillings, etc. Just to name a few....

http://tuberose.com/Root_Canals.html

Here is just a tiny excerpt from the above site......

>>>>Leave the root canal or cavitation in the body, and there is the potential of creating an unwanted autoimmune or degenerative disease that could be life threatening. Toxins and bacteria can both leak from these contamination sites wreaking havoc with a person’s cardiovascular, endocrine, nervous and immune systems. The public needs to be informed, so they can make educated choices in the trade-off between toxic convenience and health.>>>>

>>>Shouldn’t we question the wisdom of supplying a haven for these microbes so close to our brain and circulatory system? Does this information validate the claims of “sterile” root canals? Dentists claim they can “sterilize” the tooth before forcing the gutta percha wax down into the canal. Perhaps they can sterilize a column of air in the center of the tooth, but is that really where the problem is? Bacteria wandering out of the dentinal tubules is what Price was finding, and what we were finding in the crushed tooth samples. But the problem doesn't end there. Huggins tested blood samples adjacent to the removed <root canaled> teeth and analyzed them for the presence of anaerobic bacteria. Approximately 400 percent more bacteria were found in the blood surrounding the root canal tooth than were in the tooth itself. It seems that the tooth is the incubator. The periodontal ligament supplies more food, therefore higher concentration of bacteria. But the highest pathological growth was in the bone surrounding the dead tooth. Looking at bacterial needs, there is a smorgasbord of bacterial nutrients present in the bone. This explains the tremendous increase in bacterial concentration in the blood surrounding the root canal tooth. Try sterilizing that volume of bone.>>>


Bryanna


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Thanks for your quick reply.

If I go the route of tooth extraction, do I still need to have the cyst removed, or will it go away on it's own?

Also, is tenderness to the touch normal, or is that a sign that the infection is still present?

It does sound to me like the infection is still there in your mouth. Please read that article on Root Cannals. I had several teeth removed, rather than keeping infections in my mouth. ginnie

Hi cinnamongym,

If you have the tooth removed, yes, the cyst would also be removed at that time. Access to the cyst is easiest when removing the tooth because it is actually partially attached to the tooth.

Tenderness in that area is indicative of pressure from the inflammation relative to the infection.

I know this is not what you wanted to hear.... I wish I had more positive news. The source of your problem is the tooth... the infection will be present as long as you have that tooth.

In the dental profession it is common knowledge that root canals and apicoectomies are done in an attempt to "retain" the tooth for an undetermined amount of time. The word "save" is often misrepresented when referencing either of these procedures because it simply means to "retain" not "cure".

Please keep us posted ....
Bryanna

I'm heading to the dentist later today, and am interested to see what he has to say. I don't mind getting the tooth extracted, it's just frustrating after paying for 2 root canals now.

I just have one more question though, around the same time my infection started to hurt I noticed a lot of blood in my nose when I blow it. It never bleeds like a nosebleed, but there's always dried blood in there. Could that be related?

Hi cinnamongym,

Infections in the upper posterior teeth can spread to the sinus. In fact, that is one of the major risks associated with doing root canal therapy and/or apicoectomies in these teeth.

When you get a chance... please send us a note about how things went today at the dentist.

Bryanna



drs.QUOTE=cinnamongym;888557]I'm heading to the dentist later today, and am interested to see what he has to say. I don't mind getting the tooth extracted, it's just frustrating after paying for 2 root canals now.

I just have one more question though, around the same time my infection started to hurt I noticed a lot of blood in my nose when I blow it. It never bleeds like a nosebleed, but there's always dried blood in there. Could that be related?[/QUOTE]

How did the dentist go today.? I am sorry you put the money into the RC twice. I won't do that again either. Hope the appt. turned out OK and that you got the tooth and infection taken care of. ginnie

I went to my regular dentist to get the permanent filling, and he immediately called my endodontist and told me to go back there immediately. They did a CT scan and said I need to have the cyst/infection removed. I assume that's an apico? I haven't seen the CT images, so I don't know how far the infection has spread, but he said I will get a CD with my images next week.

Cinnamongym,

There is a cyst and infection beyond the root of the tooth because the infection inside of the tooth has proliferated into the bone. The apico will not cure this infection because the source of the infection lives within the microscopic canals that are not accessible. Therefore the cyst will return, the infection will spread and the jawbone will continue to deteriorate. What you will be left with is a large necrotic opening in your jawbone that cannot be repaired. Not to mention the systemic consequences.

Your situation is SO commonly seen with root canaled teeth because there is NO treatment to rid the tooth of the infection.

I hope you give serious consideration to your options.

Bryanna