Hi folks!

First time posting here, although I've been reading this very helpful forum for some time. I'm a 44 year old male with no health issues before this, so here's my story...

Feb 2012, I had root canal treatment done on #24/#25 lower central teeth after an abscess flared up. Prior to that I had no pain, but had noticed that #25 had become a bit loose. I was told I had periodontal disease, and there was a nasty looking black area below both teeth on the x-ray. The endodontist said that it was a 'borderline' case, but that it was worth attempting the root canal in the hope that the teeth could be saved, and hopefully the bone would regenerate and the teeth would fuse back to the bone over time.

Other than that, I had been feeling somewhat light-headed for a couple of months prior to this. I had hoped that the root canal would solve my light-headed symptoms, but I would never have guessed the nightmare that was about to follow!

2 weeks after the root canals, I went out to a party and drank a bit too much (I don't drink often!), so was sick the following morning. For the next couple of days, my throat burned and I could hardly swallow, which had never happened to me before. Over the next couple of weeks, I started to feel really dizzy and had a sharp abdominal pain around the spleen area. I went to my doctor, he reckoned that I might have suffered internal bleeding after the party, and put me on medication. It didn't really help much, and so followed a series of hospital tests (endoscopy, MRI, ultrasound) over the next couple of months, all of which were clear. Blood tests were also clear, with occasional elevated white cell count. The dizziness and abdominal pain continued, other symptoms started to appear (brain 'fog', feeling drunk 24/7, a salty/blood/metallic taste in my mouth, chronic fatigue, and problems focusing my eyes) and I was barely able to function.

Fast forward to August 2012, and another abscess flared up at #14 upper molar, which I'd ignored for a long time, and at that stage, most of the crown was gone. My dentist gave me a course of antibiotics and then extracted the tooth. The morning after, all my symptoms disappeared! I couldn't believe it! I was elated, convinced that the old molar was to blame all along, and my life returned to normal. Until 2 weeks later, when I went for a cleaning with the dental hygienist. By the time I walked back to my car, the dizziness had returned. I was gutted.

I was finally suspicious of the root canals, as all my symptoms had started shortly after they had been done. I saw my dentist, he took another x-ray and said that they were fine, and in fact were healing very well, with excellent bone regeneration. I asked him if he could have missed anything when he extracted #14, and maybe some infection could have been left behind but he said no, that he got it all. I asked him if he could prescribe an antibiotic course, and he put me on a combination of Amoxicillin/Metronidazole. After 7 days my symptoms were gone again, and I was back to normal, but after a couple of weeks the symptoms returned again. This continued through the winter, and I started experiencing occasional throbbing pain where #14 had been extracted.

Fast forward again to March 2013, and after a period of swollen glands in my neck and painful glands in my armpits, I had another round of antibiotics, this time with a violent reaction (shivering/shaking for a week), from which I finally recovered by taking a course of probiotics. This time I asked my dentist to refer me to an oral surgeon to investigate the extraction site. The oral surgeon thought he noticed a dark area on my last x-ray, I asked him if he could do a surgical debridement, and he ordered a CT scan to investigate further. After several weeks waiting, I had the scan in the first week of May. But when I saw him a week later, he said that the CT scan appeared normal, and as there is a risk with any surgical procedure, he was reluctant to open up the old extraction site and debride the socket based on the evidence.

I then made an appointment with a different dentist for a second opinion, which happened last week. He took a panoramic x-ray and pointed out a dark area around #25 (the RC tooth that had been loose in the beginning). He suspected an infection and suggested an apicoectomy, but said that I would have to return to my original dentist and follow up with him. I asked him about extracting both RC teeth and replacing with a bridge/implants, but he refused and just said I wold have to return to my original dentist.

So, back to the oral surgeon again! My most recent visit with him was a few days ago, where we discussed the extraction site again, because that's the reason I had been referred to him. He said that in his experience, CT scans are sometimes only 75-80% accurate, and that a follow-up scan should be done again in a few months time. I then asked him about the likelihood of root canal infection based on my symptoms, and told him about my visit to the second dentist. I explained the understanding I now have of the root canal procedure - that the large canals are sealed up, the small canals are inaccessible and remain infected, and that it's a case of sealing up what they can and 'hoping for the best'. His answer was "essentially, yes".

I told him that I've had such a nightmare ever since the root canals were done, that at this stage I'd prefer to have them extracted. I asked him about a bridge or implants, and he said that in his opinion, he would recommend a bridge based on my previous periodontal disease. He said that implants are the 'gold standard', but are not maintenance-free, and several hygienist visits would be required every year to make sure they don't fail. He went on to say that he had recommended against implants to other patients, but they went elsewhere, had implants fitted, and then returned to him 2-3 years later, looking for help when the implants failed.

So, the final part of that discussion was him saying that I have to return to my dentist, discuss the situation with him, and he can refer me back to the oral surgeon. Oh, I forgot to mention that I ended up in the emergency room 2 weeks ago with a badly swollen submandibular gland, so when I told the oral surgeon about this, he sent me for an ultrasound. I have an appointment with him next week to discuss the result.

I also now have an appointment with my dentist earlier on the same day, and I will be asking him to take fresh x-rays of the RC teeth and the extraction site and to email them to the oral surgeon.

What a mess! And sorry about the long-winded post, but I wanted to make sure I included all the details...

Any thoughts would be very welcome!

Wow - you have certainly been through a lot with your health. I hope the best for you. I would imagine taking those two root canalled teeth out would help you a lot.

Good luck! Gretchen

Thanks Gretchen! It's reassuring to read some of the other posts here and to know I'm not the only one with issues after root canal. Hopefully I'll have the same kind of outcome I've read about elsewhere - remove RC teeth properly (surgically), and health returns to normal.

Although I'm still not sure what part the extraction has played in all this. I'm hoping Bryanna will reply when she has a chance. Maybe she's seen this kind of situation before.

From my last conversation with the oral surgeon, I'm confident that he will do a thorough extraction. He said that for a bridge or implants, he would extract the RC teeth, scrape down to the 'bleeding bone' to be absolutely sure all infection was gone, and place grafts.

I think I should summarize my situation for Bryanna's sake, as it will make replying easier!

Feb 2012 - root canal #24 & #25, onset of many weird symptoms.
Aug 2012 - extraction #14, symptoms disappeared.
Sep 2012 - cleaning, symptoms returned.
Sep 2012 - antibiotics, symptoms disappeared.
Oct 2012 - symptoms returned and have persisted.

Ok, I can't speak to the infections overall, but I can speak to implants/bridges. Bridges cut down healthy teeth and compromise them. As far as implants go, you need to have great hygiene-brushing, flossing, and I also use a waterpik. I get my teeth cleaned every 6 months anyway, so having them check my implants then is no big deal. If you don't think implants are the right choice, perhaps a partial denture so that your remaining healthy teeth aren't compromised?

I've had crazy amounts of root canals. If have to go count, but I want it was 20+. I regret that. I wish I had pulled them instead of keeping them in my body while infected.

I have personally experienced aggravated health issues because of dental issues. There is no doubt in my mind that dental work can thrash your whole body.

Root canals are not a problem. I have root canals in almost all my teeth...and now it's time for dentures. Reason? I was a Coca Cola drinker for years. I had Coke at my bed stand at night and would swish it around when I awoke at night if I had a thirst issue. (I know...really dumb...but I was in my 30's and of course, we are invincible at that age.

A week from tomorrow August 19, 2013, I will have all of my remaining upper teeth extracted. I've been wearing a partial for around 5+ years and that has now failed. I am scared to death. I'm a good golfer but the anxiety has me playing the worst golf of my life. (but that's another story)

I have the choice of having implants but am at the age where spending an extra 15k over the 25k all of this is going to cost doesn't make much sense to me. I already have an implant on my right eye-tooth #11 but maybe an implant on my left eye-tooth would be a good idea? Let me know what you think.

Hi archie,

Your statement tells a very clear story for countless people all over the world ....<<<<Root canals are not a problem. I have root canals in almost all my teeth...and now it's time for dentures.>>>

Obviously your soda drinking contributed to your extensive tooth decay. But if the root canal procedure was the "cure" for those decayed teeth.... how come those teeth need to be removed? It sounds like you may have other contributing factors for your tooth loss but the idea of "curing" a decayed/infected tooth with a root canal was obviously a temporary means of retaining those ill teeth and not the cure to the cause of their illness.

I bring this point up in this forum because people are misinformed about the importance of the health of their teeth and without the proper education from their dentist they become so afraid to lose the teeth that are diseased.
Then at an older age....they are faced with removal of these teeth and concerned about wearing a full denture. You are fortunate in that you have been wearing a partial denture because you are already use to how that feels against your palate, etc.

The implant that is replacing #6 your right eye tooth..... how long has that been there? Will they be removing that along with the other teeth?

Bryanna

I have returned with an update! I thought it was the right thing to do, as so many people tend to post when they have problems, and then disappear with no follow-up or resolution to their situations.

So, after months of waiting, my RC teeth were finally extracted 4 weeks ago. It took ages to get a hospital appointment with the oral surgeon, but eventually one was scheduled, and I arrived full of anticipation...

Only to find that when my name was called, it wasn't the oral surgeon doing the procedure! It was one of his registrars. I was quite unhappy about this, and proceeded to explain my situation and history to her. I told her about my previous conversation with the oral surgeon, where he said that he would thoroughly clean and scrape the sockets to make sure all infection was removed. I asked her if she would be doing this, and she said no, that she just had instructions from the surgeon to do a routine extraction of the two teeth.

I then asked her if she would speak to him (he was actually working in the next room) but she refused. She said that he was always extremely specific with his instructions, and if he wanted extra scraping done, he would have given her those instructions. So I was left with a choice to go ahead or refuse the procedure (and possibly wait weeks or months for another hospital appointment), so after her attempting to reassure me that the teeth were the source of the infection, and that the body would heal itself once the teeth were extracted, I let her go ahead with the extraction. However, I told her that I would only sign the consent if she promised me that she would be extremely diligent in cleaning the sockets, and do some scraping to get rid of at least most of the infection.

In her defense, she said that she would go very slowly and gently to try to get the root tips out with the teeth, otherwise she would have to go back in and get them afterwards. Luckily, the root tips came out with the teeth, she then did a lot of soft tissue cleaning and suction, and I felt her do some scraping in each socket. And I was sent on my way. I had a 2 unit temporary partial ready to go, but was told to keep it out as much as possible for the next 48 hours to allow the clots to form.

The next part was quite remarkable - as I left the hospital, everything looked different to when I had arrived. Colors were more vibrant, and my eyesight was already clearer! When I got back to the car, I rolled up my sleeves because I was so warm, where I had felt cold and shivery on the way there. I checked the temperature, and it was 2 degrees colder than it had been earlier!

I had no pain whatsoever the rest of the day, so I think the registrar did a good job, if not as thorough as I wanted. The following day I woke up with what seemed like a horrible flu - my ears were blocked and I could hardly hear a thing, and my head felt completely blocked and stuffed up. So I hit the couch for the day! The next day I woke up expecting more of the same, but my 'flu' was gone! And the best was yet to come...

For several months prior to the extraction, my hearing had been deteriorating quite noticeably. The day after the extraction I literally could not believe my ears - my hearing had returned completely, and when I switched on my stereo at home, I was blown away by how bright and clear everything sounded! In fact, the sound was so bright it was almost painful!! Anyway, over the next couple of days my brain readjusted and everything just sounded normal again.

I've been seeing the holistic therapist weekly for bio-energy balancing sessions, and her first comment when she saw me 3 days after the extractions was "wow, your eyes look much clearer". She also said that the massive energy blockage around my head was almost completely gone. Over the past 4 weeks she has been helping me to slowly recover, and the current state of play is that my liver is now apparently working very hard to expel the accumulated toxins, and that there's also a bit of an energy blockage around my stomach. She has repeatedly told me that this will take time, and that I can expect to see earlier symptoms returning, but it is a sign of the healing process and my body gradually regaining strength. And sure enough, the abdominal pain that I had during all of last year, and that went away a few months ago, has now returned.

So, 4 weeks later, the other strange symptoms I had been experiencing (dizziness, brain fog, chronic fatigue, heart palpitations) have also started to improve, although not as much as I had hoped. Again, apparently I must be patient while the recovery happens.

Bryanna, I would very much appreciate your thoughts on my situation now. I'm pretty sure you'll be as annoyed as I still am that the oral surgeon handed the procedure off to one of his registrars after all his talk. Do you think I should contact him and ask him to do a follow-up procedure to clean any remaining infection from the sockets before they close up? I can't help thinking that I might have been making a better and faster recovery by now if that had been done properly first time.

Many thanks!

Hi dr teeth,

I am in the dental field for many years and I can offer you some help here.

Your dental problem and possibly systemic issues may be linked to these things....

You have a bacterial infection called Periodontal disease (as you stated). What you may not know is that every minute of the day this bacteria filters through your blood stream. That disease can make you systemically sick. If the disease is not brought under control, then every time you brush/floss your teeth, eat, drink, or have your teeth professionally cleaned, the bacteria get stirred up. A routine cleaning cannot remove the bacteria because it is deep in the tissue and in abundance. Some people will react unfavorably (not feel well) immediately after the cleaning.... others it may take a week or so.

Anytime you have dental work such as an extraction and there is active periodontal disease present anyplace in that mouth, the bacteria from the disease goes to the surgical site. This can cause the area to become infected and/or cause it to heal very slowly or incompletely.

Root canaled teeth.......
All root canaled teeth are infected because there is no access to the tiny canals which harbor infectious bacteria. Black areas seen on an xray at the apex or near a root canaled tooth always indicate infection and most often indicate that a cyst is forming in the bone. Re treating a tooth with another root canal or doing an apicoectomy will not reduce or eliminate the infection inside of the tooth. The only way to "cure" the infection is to remove the source which are the rc teeth.

In your case you have infected teeth and periodontal disease. No wonder you are feeling so poorly!

Your drinking event that lead to you becoming ill... sounds to me like your immune system is overwhelmed with your dental infections and since intoxication burdens the immune system you are what is referred to as a "host" for becoming ill which means when something triggers your compromised immune system it responds in the form of ill health.

Antibiotics will temporarily subside your symptoms because what you have is bacterial. However, they cannot cure your problems.

It would not be wise to retain any infected teeth if you are concerned about your overall health because they can make you very ill. Infected teeth also destroy the bone structure that holds the teeth in the jaw which will make replacement of those teeth compromised if not very impossible other than with removable partial dentures.

Have you done anything to treat the periodontal disease? How long have you had it and how severe is it? Do you have regular dental care every six months?

Bryanna

Hi Bryanna! Thanks so much for your reply - I really appreciate your help.

This makes a lot of sense!

I wasn't aware of this, and it too makes a lot of sense. I wonder if this is the reason I'm still getting an occasional throbbing from the extraction site of #14, almost a year later?

Would this be a retention cyst? The oral surgeon mentioned this as a possibility from the extraction last year, but that has apparently now been ruled out based on the CT scan. However, the new x-rays in a few days may show something different again.

Boy am I sorry I ever went to that party! I hardly ever drink alcohol as a rule, maybe once or twice a year... But it sounds like these symptoms would have happened anyway in some shape or form.

Thanks Bryanna. I need to discuss replacement options with my dentist and the oral surgeon.

Yes, I have had regular dental care since this happened last year. But I had allowed the dental visits to lapse before that, which is why I'm in this situation now. As for the periodontal disease, there hasn't been any specific treatment for it, other than the root canals. All I know is that my x-rays from a few months ago looked a LOT better than the x-rays taken before the root canal work was done. The periodontal disease hasn't been discussed since, which had led me to believe it was resolved.