[socasusie]

Ok, I am hoping for some additional education.

I was reading an article about a tooth care system (the zellies system if you want to read it). it involves Closys rinse, then brushing with a simple toothpaste like plain Colgate, then using listerine, followed by ACT. The using xylitol mints and water during the day. I don't know if I'll do it long term, but my lupus does cause inflammation to be worse in my gums (but not bones for some reason) and the swelling has gone down.

Anyway, she talked about root canals, but two different kinds. She said that there are root canals where the tooth is infected (we've discussed that type), but also the type where a dentist knows the nerve is going to die, like from trauma, and does the root canal before it can get infected. Is that still dangerous? I am thinking because they can't truly seal it off, the normal bacteria in your mouth would infect at some point, even if started with no infection, but am hoping you can educate me further.

As you know, dentists don't admit to root canals being bad-so I'm trying to determine if this type of root canal is still going to be a chronic infection because its ultimately a dead tooth.

As always, thanks you for your patience in educating us!

[Bryanna]

Hi socasusie,

Now I've heard of everything!! Zellies... smellies... in plain english. What a bunch of BS!

These products are loaded with preservatives, harsh chemicals, dyes..... all of which will contribute to poor oral health. There is no reason to bombard your mouth with chemicals ever! It is important to NOT kill off the good bacterias in the mouth and these products can not differentiate between the good and the bad so they kill ALL of them. Even her xylitol products have junk in them. A company called Spry makes xylitol products that contain much better ingredients

The best oral hygiene comes from thorough tooth brushing with a soft bristle brush or an electric tooth brush..... flossing... and tongue scraping. The least harsh and most effective toothpaste does not contain any chemicals, dyes, preservatives, saccharin, sorbitol, harsh whitening agents or alcohol. Products made by Jason or Tom's are effective and do not contain harsh ingredients. If you want to use something a little abrasive once or twice a week to remove stains and whiten your teeth... put a small dab of aluminum free baking soda on a wet tooth brush and gently brush your teeth. Works wonders!

I have not read her blib on root canals but I imagine it's BS like her oral hygiene system. Root canals done on live teeth could have a slightly better "temporary" outcome or a much more severe outcome compared to teeth that were already dying or dead. The core of the problem remains the same. Let me ask you ..... what do you think happens to the nerve tissue trapped inside of the tiny canals after the root canal procedure cuts off the blood supply to that tooth rendering the tooth non vital?

Bryanna

Originally Posted by socasusie

Ok, I am hoping for some additional education.

I was reading an article about a tooth care system (the zellies system if you want to read it). it involves Closys rinse, then brushing with a simple toothpaste like plain Colgate, then using listerine, followed by ACT. The using xylitol mints and water during the day. I don't know if I'll do it long term, but my lupus does cause inflammation to be worse in my gums (but not bones for some reason) and the swelling has gone down.

Anyway, she talked about root canals, but two different kinds. She said that there are root canals where the tooth is infected (we've discussed that type), but also the type where a dentist knows the nerve is going to die, like from trauma, and does the root canal before it can get infected. Is that still dangerous? I am thinking because they can't truly seal it off, the normal bacteria in your mouth would infect at some point, even if started with no infection, but am hoping you can educate me further.

As you know, dentists don't admit to root canals being bad-so I'm trying to determine if this type of root canal is still going to be a chronic infection because its ultimately a dead tooth.

As always, thanks you for your patience in educating us!

[socasusie]

Lol. spry is what I use-it's what the health food store by my house sells. Also love my sonicare with the sensitive head on it. I will check out Tom's-I've also seen that at the store by my house. All my front teeth are crowns o they don't really stain.

I think leaving dead tissue of any kind in your body is probably a bad idea, but it made me wonder because if there was no bacteria from an infection, could they seal it off? Are there normally bacteria that live inside a tooth that can cause issues?

[socasusie]

Ps-and Spry now makes a xylitol candy called Sparx that is seriously sooooo yummy. I think it's made for kids, but it totally satisfies that afternoon sweet tooth craving.

[Bryanna]

Socasusie,

Yea, spry is a good product.

There is always good and bad bacteria residing in the mouth... over 500 different strains! We can never eliminate the bad bacteria altogether nor do we want to. However, there needs to be a balance that clearly weighs heavier on the good bacteria side.

I am going to give you a graphic picture of what happens during a root canal procedure on a vital tooth that has been injured. Please read it at your own discretion.

Say you have a vital tooth that has been hit and broken off to the gum line. Immediately bacteria in the mouth rushes to that vulnerable site and quickly invades the open areas of vitality that would normally be covered/protected by the tooth. So imagine this large army of germs encompassing this vulnerable area. Then the dentist takes a high speed drill bit and bores holes deeply into this vulnerable area exposing the large canals that are bleeding profusely as the vital nerves are being ripped to shreds by this high powered drill. The airborne debris of nerve tissue and bacteria can literally be seen spraying out of the patients mouth to the point where the masks and glasses worn by the dentist and assistant are now splattered with it. The rubber dam that covers the area of the patients face near the tooth is also covered in it.
Through the bleeding it becomes a poke and hope situation to locate the large canals... long sharp barbwire like files are jammed repeatedly into these canals traumatizing every bit of tooth that it touches. Solutions of anesthetic and disinfection (bleach) are pumped into these spaces with syringes in an attempt to irrigate out some of the debris to be able to get a clearer view of what they are jamming these files into. Frequently the tooth is perforated by a file either through the furcation area ....the side or the apex.
Imagine those many hundreds of windy, curvy inaccessible tiny canals that once contained vital nerve tissue now becoming trapped amongst this menagerie of bacteria. Their vitality is quickly taken away as the oxygen that supplied their nutrients is completely cut off as their openings get closed off with debris. Necrosis and inflammation sets in quickly as the nerve tissue shrivels up against the interior walls of each little canal. The nerve tissue does not dissipate or disappear. It becomes sick.
The trauma of the procedure causes the entire tooth, periodontal ligament and bone to become inflamed so the dentist backs off and places a piece of cotton that has been saturated in "formaldehyde or bleach" into the pulpal area to attempt to kill off the nerve tissue that he could not physically remove a this time. BTW... both formaldehyde and bleach are highly toxic to human beings and neither of them can be washed out or off of the tooth. The access hole is temporarily plugged up with a putty type material. Some dentist will leave the tooth open to drain....in those cases imagine the health risk of swallowing formaldehyde or bleach every minute of every day??
A week or two later... the dentist goes back in and does this all over again. Sometimes 3-4 times over several weeks!
When the dentist can finally ream the tooth with his barb wired files without the large canals bleeding..... he irrigates the large canals with a toxic disinfection solution, dries them as best as he can with paper points, then cements and melts a rubberized material called gutta percha inside whatever holes he can fit it into. So not only are the tiny canals sick with necrotic tissue, they have been blocked up by debris, contaminated from the formaldehyde or bleach which cannot be removed and then smothered closed with this hot rubberized material.
A metal post is often placed inside of this mess frequently perforating the furcation on a posterior tooth to offer some "retention" due to the vulnerability of disease that will go on for the life of the tooth. A temporary filling is put in or a core buildup and temp crown are put on.

The only difference in the root canal procedure between a vital tooth and a non vital tooth is.... the vital nerves will bleed... dead nerves will not. When a tooth is infected prior to doing the root canal ... the decayed portions of the tooth crumble from the procedure and simply add to this lovely mixture of debris.

All nerve tissue every place in the body requires oxygen and blood to be healthy. So you can see how the tiny canals become severely deprived of both of those things. Infection is inevitable.

Sorry for the gross description. I am repeatedly asked the same questions about root canaled teeth because dentist do not take the time to inform people about the gruesomeness of this procedure. So I feel it was time to write it out for everyone to see it. Hope it answered your question!

Bryanna

Originally Posted by socasusie

Lol. spry is what I use-it's what the health food store by my house sells. Also love my sonicare with the sensitive head on it. I will check out Tom's-I've also seen that at the store by my house. All my front teeth are crowns o they don't really stain.

I think leaving dead tissue of any kind in your body is probably a bad idea, but it made me wonder because if there was no bacteria from an infection, could they seal it off? Are there normally bacteria that live inside a tooth that can cause issues?

[socasusie]

Why are you sorry? I asked you so that I could learn-because dentists don't explain it! It actually explains it very well, and why it really doesn't matter what the difference is between the live vs dead tooth-either way the bacteria take over.

Thank you for taking the time to explain it-I really appreciate it!

[ginnie]

Good God above Bryanna, why is this procedure ever done to people?
It sounds like something out of a horror show, and I have had it done! It hurts your mouth, it hurts your body. There should be a oath of some kind for dentists to DO NO HARM. Sounds to me like this RC stuff has been to line the pockets of those that do the procedure. Makes me upset too, that as patients we are NEVER informed about this. I am so glad I had those two teeth removed and declined the RC. Keep educating Bryanna, all of us need to know the truth. I thank you for the visual, it will help people in the long run in a way the dentist never will. ginnie

[Bryanna]

Hi ginnie,

The original motive to performing root canals was an attempt to "save or retain" a tooth. There was always a concern about the procedure being able to "cure" the infection. But at that time the intentions were probably sincere simply because the science and biology were pretty much unknown as they had not been explored yet. However, the truth of this matter followed shortly thereafter and it has been well known for many, many years.

Expensive rotary type instruments have been invented to replace some of the manual ones to lesson the physical burden on the dentists hand during the debridement of the large canals... making the procedure seem more high tech and more costly to the patient.... allows the dentist to perform the procedure in less time so he can lessen the chair time per person which allows him to see more patients..... make more $$$$. Expensive microscopes are being utilized by endodontists to give the impression that their technique is more thorough than those who do not use one..... more $$$$. Ironically since you still cannot see or access inside of the tiny canals... that bacterial problem has not been resolved. The only real purpose the microscope serves if used properly would be to examine the large canals but that still doesn't alter the many other flaws and toxic nature of the procedure or the systemic risks to the patients health.

I believe the real reason people are not properly or fully informed about this procedure is because #1 it is very profitable for the dentist and #2 it is easy to sell as most people have no clue what is involved and want to hear the word... "'cure or save". When a dentist says a root canal can "save" the tooth... he knows that word is being misused and misinterpreted as "cure".

If dentists and their staff used the word "retain"... and briefly explained that the procedure cannot and will not "save a tooth" as in cure the infection..... the average person would be more inclined to ask questions about it. FYI... most staff members including hygienists have never been educated on the flaws of root canal therapy and that is exactly how many dentists prefer it to be :/

Even if all of the information was presented honestly to all patients, some people would still chose to have the rc done... and that decision would be their personal prerogative. But at least they would know what they are embarking upon and not be mislead into thinking once the rc is done.... all is well and healthy.

Bryanna

Originally Posted by ginnie

Good God above Bryanna, why is this procedure ever done to people?
It sounds like something out of a horror show, and I have had it done! It hurts your mouth, it hurts your body. There should be a oath of some kind for dentists to DO NO HARM. Sounds to me like this RC stuff has been to line the pockets of those that do the procedure. Makes me upset too, that as patients we are NEVER informed about this. I am so glad I had those two teeth removed and declined the RC. Keep educating Bryanna, all of us need to know the truth. I thank you for the visual, it will help people in the long run in a way the dentist never will. ginnie

[socasusie]

I ahead a dentist that didn't quite admit that root canals were bad, but he said that they are temporary. He said they prevent you from losing the tooth at that exact moment (leaving out that you leave an infection in your body). I wonder if that was part if it-that some dentists felt "saving a tooth" is better than pulling it, although no doctor would ever say to "save" a gangrene leg just so that you could keep it.

I think rout canals are one of those sad times where a medical professional decides they know what's best for the patient, as opposed to letting patients make an informed decision. Basically, the know it all we all hate.

Thanks for doing what you can to educate patients so we can decide what risk we are willing to take with out health.